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Sorry about that. No. I didn't mean it.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/7/2017 4:13 PM, Frackowiak Tony
via NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:00DFD126-87FC-40D3-867E-B554495E4F4E@sbcglobal.net">I
disagree with doing the 2 1/2 turn spin downwind.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tony Frackowiak</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jul 7, 2017, at 2:58 PM, John Gayer via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div text="#3333FF" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Taking into account
some of the comments and adding a few thoughts of my own,
I came up with the following changes, shown to the right
of the original.<br>
<br>
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="1323"
border="0">
<colgroup><col style="width:20pt" width="26"> <col
style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:20772;width:426pt"
width="568"> <col
style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:987;width:20pt"
width="27"> <col
style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:2669;
width:55pt" span="2" width="73"> <col
style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:11264;width:231pt"
width="308"> <col
style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:2377;width:49pt"
width="65"> <col
style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:6692;width:137pt"
width="183"> </colgroup><tbody>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl67" style="height:24.95pt;width:20pt"
width="26" height="33"> </td>
<td class="xl87"
style="border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">Maneuver</td>
<td class="xl84" style="border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">KF</td>
<td class="xl84" style="border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Exit</td>
<td class="xl85" style="width:55pt" width="73"><br>
</td>
<td class="xl86" style="width:231pt" width="308">Change
maneuver to:</td>
<td class="xl86" style="width:49pt" width="65">New K</td>
<td class="xl86" style="width:137pt" width="183">new
exit</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl71" style="height:24.95pt;width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">1</td>
<td class="xl72"
style="border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">Takeoff</td>
<td class="xl73" style="border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">1</td>
<td class="xl74" style="border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl74" style="border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl74"
style="border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl74" style="border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl75"
style="border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl76"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">2</td>
<td class="xl65"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt"
width="568">Double Immelman with Knife Edge Flight
inside 1/2 loop then outside1/2loop</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">5</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">U</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl76"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">3</td>
<td class="xl69"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt"
width="568">1/2 Loop with Integrated 1/2 Roll<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">3</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308">1/2 loop, 1/2 roll in, 1/2 rolls
opposite exit</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65">3</td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183">upright</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl76"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">4</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Triangle
Loop from top, 1/2 rolls on 45's, 1 1/2 snap on
top leg<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">5</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">inverted</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">D</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl78"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">5</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>1/2 Square Loop
with Snap Roll in down track<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">4</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308">2 1/2 turn inverted spin</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65">2</td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183">inverted</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl78"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">6</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Six-sided Loop,
2 of 4 Rolls in leg 2, two 1/4 Rolls opposite in
leg 4</td>
<td class="xl70"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none">4</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">inverted</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">U</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308">Six-sided Loop, 2 of 4 Rolls in leg 2
and 4</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65">4</td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183">inverted</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl76"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">7</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Humpty
Bump with Roll Options, 2 of 2 Roll up, Full Roll
down; or 3/4 Roll up and down<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">3</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308">Humpty Bump with Roll Options, 1/2
Roll up and down; or 1/4 Roll up and down</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65">2</td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183">upright</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl76"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">8</td>
<td class="xl65"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt"
width="568">Knife Edge Flight with 1 ¼ Roll in and
out, - rolls same direction</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">4</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">inverted</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">D</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl78"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">9</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Stall
Turn with two 1/4 Rolls opposite up, 1/2 Roll down<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">3</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">TA</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Stall
Turn with two 1/4 Rolls down</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65">2</td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183">upright</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl76"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">10</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Vertical
Cuban 8 with 1/2 Roll, Full Roll<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">4</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Inverted</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">U</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl78"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">11</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Trombone
with Roll<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">2</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308">reverse shark snap on 45,1/2 roll down</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65">4</td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183">inverted</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl78"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">12</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Golf Ball with
3/4 Rolls and Knife Edge Loop<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">4</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">D</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308">Golf Ball with 1/4 Rolls and Knife
Edge Loop</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65">4</td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183">inverted</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl79"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">13</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Top Hat, 3 of 4
Roll up, 3/4 Roll down<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">2</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308">Guide should be changed to K3<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl78"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">14</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Figure Z with 4
of 8 Roll in 45<br>
</td>
<td class="xl70"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none">4</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Inverted</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">U</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl79"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">15</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Inverted 2-turn
Spin (TA)</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">2</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308">1/2 square loop with full roll</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65">2</td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183">upright</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl76"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">16</td>
<td class="xl65"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt"
width="568">Two Slow Rolls opposite, no hesitation</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">4</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">D</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl78"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">17</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Stall turn with
half rolls up and down<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">2</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl76"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">18</td>
<td class="xl65"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt"
width="568">Loop with Integrated Roll in top 180</td>
<td class="xl70"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none">5</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73">U</td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl76"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33">19</td>
<td class="xl65"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt"
width="568">Landing</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">1</td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl76"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33"> </td>
<td class="xl65"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt"
width="568"> </td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27"> </td>
<td class="xl66"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt"
height="33">
<td class="xl80"
style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none; width:20pt"
width="26" height="33"> </td>
<td class="xl81"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt"
width="568">Total K-factor</td>
<td class="xl81"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt"
width="27">62</td>
<td class="xl81"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl82"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt"
width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl82"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt"
width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl82"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt"
width="65">60</td>
<td class="xl83"
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt"
width="183"> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
I tried to keep the flavor and intent of the original.
Hopefully this is a bit easier, addresses the missing room
for the slow roll, the lack of space before the golf ball
and eases up a bit on the fiddly turnaround maneuvers. I
removed the 1/2 loop integrated 1/2 roll. The maneuver is
not difficult but making it LARGE is. Will try to fly this
tomorrow. Also I believe the guide KFactor for the top hat
is too low. Should be a three.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/7/2017 10:19 AM, Scott
McHarg via NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALDH1Ur8jiAWOvAq1K3=uu82v02eErqyMfVm=DrdvX3G0VLYMQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;color:#0000ff">I
have to agree with Tony on the Spin followed by the
Slow Rolls. The Slow Rolls will require room and
with a blowing in crosswind or a decent headwind,
this is going to be an issue. Personally, I'm very
pleased with the other class sequences.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><b
style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><font
style="font-family:comic sans
ms,sans-serif" size="4">Scott A.
McHarg</font></b><br>
<div>VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research
Pilot</div>
<div>Texas A&M University</div>
<div>PPL - ASEL</div>
<div>Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA
Part 107</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 11:01
AM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">The Intermediate
and Advanced patterns look OK, but I don't think
Intermediate should be changed as it is only on
it's 2nd year.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Masters pattern is much more difficult
then the current. 14 of the 19 maneuvers have
to be written in to the Guide. The assigned
K-Factors are pulled out of thin air for many
of the maneuvers. They are whatever they
needed to be to stay under the K limit.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Look at this pattern as an Advanced flier
entering Masters. You now have two
integrated rolling maneuvers. The full roll
over the top 1/2 of a loop is much more
difficult then the 1/2 roll over the top
1/4. Then the turnaround 1/2 loop with 1/2
roll will be much more difficult as you
start low and have to end up quite high for
the next maneuver. It will be a lengthy,
difficult maneuver.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The two maneuvers with snaps are right
after each other. I would think you would
want separation between snap maneuvers. And
they will both be inside snaps.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The vertical cuban 8 will be huge
demanding lots of power. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is no chance to correct your box
positioning after the spin. You have to go
right in to the opposite slow rolls which
have to start early. And you will be blown
back in to the rolls from the spin.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The trombone is a poor choice in between
the vertical cuban and the golf ball. There
will be very little distance in between the
maneuvers. And it will only be able to be
flown one way. No real choice here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The golf ball will be much more difficult
then the current ke humpty. Since it is
starting downwind with the ke starting on a
45 degree line you will be at ke for a very
long time.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The addition of instant roll reversal
will make it much more difficult for the
incoming advanced flier.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as I know, you guys did nothing to
address the improper make-up of the Sequence
Committee. You cannot expect a proper
Masters pattern without difficulty creep
from a Committee made up of mostly Masters
pilots.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This pattern will keep Advanced fliers
from moving up, which in most cases will
have them quitting pattern.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since the make-up of the Sequence
Committee does not follow the charter, with
very little representation amongst the
classes, this is a top heavy schedule. From
my own personal standpoint, make Masters as
hard as you want to. I have plenty of time
to practice. But it will be a smaller group
of Masters fliers.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tony</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Joe Walker
via NSRCA-discussion wrote:</div>
<br
class="m_717610266155300671Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:10px">
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375265"><span
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375362"><font
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375570"
size="5">Hey guys! Be sure to
go to the main site now to take
a look at the proposed sequences
for Intermediate, Advanced and
Masters. Remember that we are
in the commenting stage and all
feedback is welcome. My only
request is that you be specific
in your thoughts so the feedback
can be productive in making the
sequences the best they can be.
I really like them personally
and look forward to diving in
and practicing up!</font></span></div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375265"><span><font
size="5"><br>
</font></span></div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375265"><span
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375458"><font
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375586"
size="5">Best regards,</font></span></div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375265"><span
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375457"><font
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375585"
size="5">Joe Walker</font></span></div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375265"><span
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375456"><font
id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375572"
size="5">NSRCA President</font></span></div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yahoo_quoted"
style="display:block">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:10px">
<div
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2"
face="Arial"> On Wednesday,
June 21, 2017 10:02 AM,
Whodaddy Whodaddy via
NSRCA-discussion <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</font></div>
<br>
<br>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671y_msg_container">
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395">
<div>
<div>Administrator </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Please remove this
email from the
discussion list </div>
<div><a rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
href="mailto:Whodaddy10@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Whodaddy10@gmail.com</a></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Thx</div>
<div>Gary Courtney</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div>Sent from my iPhone</div>
</div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yqt3411138339"
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yqt86963">
<div><br clear="none">
On Jun 21, 2017, at
8:50 AM, Don Ramsey
via NSRCA-discussion
<<a rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yqt3411138339"
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yqt83868">
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395WordSection1">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">John,</span></div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">NSRCA had a meeting at the end of the pilots
meeting at last
year’s NATS and
all pilots that
were paying
attention knew
about it. About 5
of the contestants
stayed for that
meeting. </span></div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">Don</span></div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></div>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
NSRCA-discussion [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nsrca-discussion-<wbr>bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf
Of </b>John
Gayer via
NSRCA-discussion<br
clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b>
Tuesday, June
20, 2017 5:35
PM<br
clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Joe
Walker; Scott
McHarg; NSRCA
Mailing List<br
clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b>
Re:
[NSRCA-discussion]
NSRCA
Leadership /
New Sequences
- My thoughts
- Long</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal">
</div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Joe,<br clear="none">
Thanks for the
reply.<br
clear="none">
One suggestion I
have is to
reinstitute the
physical board
meeting at the Nats
or perhaps a meeting
with beer and
whatever. It's a
great opportunity to
meet your fellow
board members and
discuss the future
of pattern. Just
keep it informal and
fun. The idea is
more to form
connections then to
discuss normal board
business.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Concerning the list,
set up a local
folder for the list
and use a filter to
dump into it. Then
you have no
additional inbox
clutter and its easy
to tell when there
is a hot topic.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
John</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal">On
6/20/2017 2:43 PM,
Joe Walker wrote:</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264087">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Good afternoon John,</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>I'm not certain that the entirety of the
board
subscribes to
the list, but
I'm here now
and it is a
voluntary
discussion
list. It's
also not the
only way to
communicate,
so if there is
a hot topic
you would like
to see
immediate
action on,
please send an
email to the
person you are
desiring to
connect with.
Or better yet,
a phone call.
I can tell you
now from
experience
that it sure
does fill up
your inbox in
a hurry! My
preference
would be to
change to a
platform that
is a bit more
in line with
the rest of
the world, but
I'm certain
that will stir
up another
thread, thus
contributing
more to the
inbox influx,
so I'll save
that for
another time
;-). I can
also say
definitively
that engaging
every post is
an <b><i>enormous</i></b>
time commitment. People like to type!</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></div>
</div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>I think there have been many great
suggestions on
a variety of
topics. I'm
certainly on
board with
several great
ideas and have
been, and will
continue to be
an advocate
for reasonable
discussion
with
suggestions to
make what we
do more fun
for everyone.</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></div>
</div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></div>
</div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></div>
</div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Best,</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Joe Walker</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt">
</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">On Tuesday, June
20, 2017 4:09
PM, John Gayer
via
NSRCA-discussion
<a
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org></a>
wrote:</span><span></span></div>
</div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span> </span></div>
<div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395">
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span>Scott,<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
I can only ask
why the board
is not
subscribed to
this list?<br
clear="none">
That is how
you keep a
finger on the
pulse of the
membership (or
at least the
vocal parts of
it). Not the
only way, of
course.<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
There is no
requirement to
respond or
take action on
anything the
board or
committee
members read
here but the
threads exist
to be pursued
and ideas
presented that
may strike a
chord.<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
Not everything
here has been
negative. Many
positive
suggestions
have been
made. <br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
I'm sure the
board could
issue a waiver
to the two
year rule for
Masters if
they want to.
Or just change
one maneuver,
or two. I have
candidates.
:=) Probably
need to do
that for
Sportsman as
well.<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
John</span></div>
<div
id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yqt28817">
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>On 6/20/2017 7:51 AM, Scott McHarg wrote:</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Sorry, I would like to rephrase my last
sentence. I'd
like to blame
auto-correct
but, I don't
think that'll
work in this
case. Sorry
people.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>"Truly, great comments all around but if
it's not being
recognized or
seen by those
that can
change it,
what's the
point?"</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span><br clear="all">
</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Scott A.
McHarg</span></b><span></span></div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Texas A&M University</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>PPL - ASEL</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Scott
McHarg <<a
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
href="mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">scmcharg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>It's one thing for us to debate a
proposed
sequence that
hasn't even
been approved
by the board
for public
comment that
got out by
accident and
quite another
thing to break
the AMA Rules
stipulating
that we do
change Masters
at least once
every 2
years. I'm
all in favor
of this
discussion but
wouldn't it
make sense
that we make
sure our board
was picking up
what we're
putting down?
Truly, great
comments all
around but if
it's being
ignored by
those that can
change it,
what's the
point?</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span><br clear="all">
</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Scott A.
McHarg</span></b><span></span></div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Texas A&M University</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>PPL - ASEL</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span> </span></div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:35 AM,
Frackowiak
Tony via
NSRCA-discussion
<<a
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca. org</a>>
wrote:</span></div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span>The Sequence Committee and the entire
Sequence
Development
Guide was
established
for the NSRCA
to create the
schedules used
in the AMA
Pattern event.
I believe the
establishment
of that
process was
key in getting
the rules
changed to
where the
NSRCA had
control of the
patterns, not
the AMA R/C
Aerobatics
Contest Board.
Are we
supposed to
just forget
all that
because the
ball was
dropped this
cycle? I think
the better
option since
we can no
longer follow
the
established
schedule is to
not change the
patterns for
this cycle.
What's the
worst that
could happen?
Everyone gets
better at
flying them
and newcomers
to a class get
a break?<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
I don't
understand
your idea of
forming
another
committee.
Don't we
already have a
Sequence
Committee and
a Rules
Committee?
Seems like
they are there
to do what you
are talking
about. Of
course it also
seems like not
much was done
about
submitting
rules
proposals from
the NSRCA this
cycle. But
maybe I am not
aware of why
that happened.<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
All in favor
of eliminating
the weight
rule and
allowing 12S.
But that
really is
another story.<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
Tony
Frackowiak</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span><br clear="none">
On Jun 19,
2017, at 9:31
PM, John Gayer
via
NSRCA-discussion
wrote:<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
><br
clear="none">
> I find it
interesting
that when we
discuss using
sequences
developed and
used
internationally
there is
substantial
resistance and
a lot of not
invented here,
loss of
control, etc.
We can
certainly
overcome the
loss of
control by
keeping a
modification
capability
when we
encounter
something
undesirable in
a sequence we
want to use.
Not invented
here can save
us a lot of
work,<br
clear="none">
><br
clear="none">
> On the
other hand,
when we
talking about
rewriting
rules for
using 12S
batteries or
eliminating/reducing
weight
restrictions
for AMA
classes, there
is a hue and
cry that we
have to stay
in lockstep
with FAI or
the sky will
fall.<br
clear="none">
><br
clear="none">
> I don't
understand
either
position. We
should take
advantage of
work done
around the
world but not
be bound to
it. If we can
build a better
mousetrap for
less money,
that's great.
If we can't,
then take
advantage of
published and
available work
wherever it
comes from.
P19 is not
terribly
exciting but
it is easier
than either
the current or
the new
Masters
sequence.<br
clear="none">
><br
clear="none">
> Keeping
that in mind,
I suggest we
accept P19 as
the Masters
schedule for
next year only
on a trial
basis.<br
clear="none">
> In the
meantime, a
committee
should be
formed to
formulate a
plan for
future
sequences.
The three
sequence
rotation makes
a lot of sense
to me for
Sportsman and
Intermediate.
Advanced could
go that way
too but
probably
should adapt
to whatever
longterm plan
is adopted for
Masters. I
would suggest
having forms
available at
contest to
survey
contestants
throughout the
year about
their
sequences.<br
clear="none">
> At the
end of the
year, the
committee
would publish
recommendations for how to generate sequences for all classes. A
recommendation
I could make
right now is
that the board
ensures the
committee
adheres to the
guidelines and
charter. The
committee
could make
changes to the
documents but
would need
board approval
for those
changes prior
to
implementation
or ask for a
waiver.<br
clear="none">
><br
clear="none">
> John</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div
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style="background:white"><span>> ______________________________
_________________<br
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