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    Tony,<br>
    <br>
    Check with Jon Carter or just use the one in my previous post or
    maybe Sean Mersh has one. There's been enough turnover in D7 DVPs
    since the document came out that it is asking a lot for Dan to come
    up with a copy.<br>
    <br>
    John<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/18/2017 2:18 PM, Frackowiak Tony
      via NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:78F968D8-616D-4167-AD2D-2DBCF18DE04F@sbcglobal.net">Make
      it 2 to 2. My middle name is John. I have been trying to get the
      charter from my current DVP for 2 weeks. No luck.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Anthony John Frackowiak</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>
        <div>
          <div>On Jun 18, 2017, at 12:52 PM, Jon Lowe via
            NSRCA-discussion wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <p dir="ltr">When I said it is supposed to be in the
              charter, the development guide says "current version" of
              the charter. I don't know what the current version is or
              what it contains. You are correct in that it doesn't
              appear to be on the website. Joe addressed that sort of
              issue in his email here.</p>
            <p dir="ltr">And it's two against one on the correct
              spelling of Jon!</p>
            <p dir="ltr">Jon (no "h")</p>
            <br>
            <br>
            <hr
style="border:0;height:1px;color:#999;background-color:#999;width:100%;margin:0
              0 9px 0;padding:0;"><span style="font-size:14px;
              color:#999999;">On Sunday, June 18, 2017 John Gayer via
              NSRCA-discussion <<span style="color:#0000A0"><a
                  href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span>>
              wrote:</span><br>
            <br>
            <div
              id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_acb654fe-aede-42fd-8473-de7351344fc3">
              <div text="#3333FF" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
                class="aolReplacedBody"> Jon, I wasn't addressing the
                presidential passing of the baton and I know the
                difference between Jon and Jon, even if neither know how
                to spell your name.<br>
                <br>
                The timeline is not <i>supposed</i> to be in the
                charter, it <i>is</i> in the charter. The switchover to
                FAI scheduling has nothing to do with it as the timeline
                I posted from the charter document is in terms of
                working back from the delivery date, not absolute
                years.  Also, the committee chair was supposed to be
                determined last October and the members set in November
                when the president was Jon Carter. I don't know when
                that actually happened but Joe should have received a
                full sequence committee including members when he took
                over. I don't know that it actually happened on
                schedule.  There used to be a calendar which Scott
                McHarg kept to remind the board of various due dates. In
                fact you, Jon Lowe, might have started that because the
                board historically wasn't staying on top of stuff.<br>
                <br>
                As far as the website is concerned, it does take more
                than a couple days to get it updated.  I see nothing on
                the NSRCA facebook page on any of the subjects I listed.
                The Sequence committee stuff is six months behind. Where
                are we supposed to look for current info?<br>
                <br>
                John<br>
                <br>
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/18/2017 12:53 PM, Jon
                  Lowe via NSRCA-discussi
                  on wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote cite="about:blank"><font size="3"
                    color="black" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
                    <div>John,</div>
                    <div>Please remember this is Jon Lowe, not Jon
                      Carter.  I was not involved in the transition to
                      Joe as president.</div>
                    <div> </div>
                    <div>You are correct in saying the sequence
                      development timeline is supposed to be in the
                      charter.  I was thinking when I talked to Joe
                      yesterday that it was in the sequence guide. I
                      pointed out to Joe today that it is supposed to be
                      in the charter.  The committee was formed during
                      the transition between Jon and Joe.  I can't speak
                      to the status of the charter.  On reflection (and
                      I just thought of this) this situation may be an
                      unintended consequence of changing the sequence
                      cycle to match FAI.  Forming the committee can now
                      fall between presidents and boards.  When I became
                      president, I had a few months to get on my feet
                      before the start of the sequence committee.  Joe
                      did not have that luxury.  We still had some
                      issues with composition of the committee, and
                      former members not being asked or informed about
                      being on the committee. I got an earful about it
                      when I was president.  I didn't know that in the
                      past that the committee had been largely carried
                      over cycle to cycle.  This fact it has come up
                      again, as Tony points out, is part of the
                      corporate memory problem NSRCA has.  There has
                      also been a large turnover in the BoD which
                      doesn't help matters.</div>
                    <div> </div>
                    <div>Regarding the co-EDs. etc on the Nats; this all
                      happened in the last couple of days.  Give them a
                      chance to get it on the website.</div>
                    <div> </div>
                    <div>Now that Joe is on this list, he can see what
                      the hot topics are and respond appropriately. I'm
                      sure he will appreciate your post on the timeline
                      as he moves forward.</div>
                    <div> </div>
                    <div>Jon (Lowe)</div>
                    <div> </div>
                    <div> </div>
                    <div style="color: black; font-family:
                      arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original
                      Message-----<br>
                      From: John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion <a
                        class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                        href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br>
                      To: Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion <a
                        class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                        href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br>
                      Sent: Sun, Jun 18, 2017 11:22 am<br>
                      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LONG conversation
                      with Joe Walker on NATs, sequence proposals, and
                      other NSRCA issues.<br>
                      <br>
                      <div
                        id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_de23fb10-2251-47ee-8c62-bb55428b1a43">
                        <div class="aolReplacedBody"> Jon,<br>
                          <br>
                          Relative to the scheduling of the new
                          sequences, there is a document that addresses
                          the timeline for the sequence committee. This
                          document is not on the website, at least not
                          in the logical place under sequence
                          development. Here is the section about the
                          schedule. This document was generated in 2012
                          to separate the functions of the committee
                          from the sequence development guide which gets
                          some updates every cycle.<br>
                          <br>
                          <font color="#000066">4 Suggested Sequence
                            Submittal Process<br>
                            The following is the recommended timeline
                            for the development and submission of new
                            sequences. Sequence<br>
                            development should always start in two years
                            prior to when the sequence is to be
                            replaced. For example, if the<br>
                            Masters sequence (2 year lifecycle) is to be
                            replaced in 2015 (X) then work on the
                            development of a new<br>
                            sequence should start in 2013 (X – 2). What
                            follows is a timeline showing the activity
                            (task) and the month the<br>
                            activity should start:<br>
                            TASK TIMELINE<br>
                            Assign and approve Committee Chairperson
                            October - year X – 2<br>
                            Committee Chairperson recruits Committee
                            Membership October – year X - 2<br>
                            BoD approves Committee Membership November –
                            year X - 2<br>
                            Establish development schedule December –
                            year X - 2<br>
                            Review design criteria/receive BoD approval
                            for changes December – year X - 2<br>
                            Develop preliminary changes/sequences and
                            flight test January through March – year X -
                            1<br>
                            Publish for public comment on NSRCA
                            website/K-Factor April through May – year X
                            - 1<br>
                            Finalize changes/sequence selection based on
                            comments June through August – year X - 1<br>
                            Submit proposed changes/sequences to BoD for
                            approval October– year X - 1<br>
                            Publish approved sequences on NSRCA
                            website/K-Factor November – year X -1<br>
                            New sequences in use January – year X<br>
                            <br>
                            <font color="#3366ff">There is no question
                              about the requirement for publishing the
                              proposed sequences. It was supposed to
                              happen the beginning of April. From your
                              email it appears that neither you or Joe
                              were aware of  the publication requirement
                              or the dates involved. I know you
                              addressed the lack of continuity between
                              boards in your ppost but I believe the
                              Committee had this document and should
                              have shared it with the board. Certainly
                              all past Committee members had a copy.<br>
                              <br>
                              There is another section in this document
                              that addresses the makeup of the committee
                              and the oversight function of the board.<br>
                              <br>
                              <font color="#000000">2.3 Membership<br>
                                There should be at least six Committee
                                members excluding the Chairperson and
                                should, if possible, contain at<br>
                                least one member who is currently
                                competing in each of the AMA classes.
                                There should be representation from<br>
                                as many NSRCA districts as possible on
                                the committee. Non pilots and non NSRCA
                                members may be<br>
                                committee members, provided that their
                                qualifications meet the approval of the
                                Chairperson and the BoD. The<br>
                                Committee shall contain at least one
                                current member of the BoD. All members
                                of the Committee are voting<br>
                                members.<br>
                                <br>
                                2.5.1 Standard Committee Procedures<br>
                                • The NSRCA President shall be the
                                primary point of contact for
                                communications between the<br>
                                Committee Chairperson and the Board on
                                all matters of directive nature, and for
                                deliverables from<br>
                                the Committee.<br>
                                • The Chairperson will select members
                                for his/her committee and propose a team
                                to the BoD.<br>
                                • The BoD will review the Committee for
                                national (District) balance and
                                representation across<br>
                                Intermediate through Masters Classes
                                and, if necessary, provide
                                recommendations on the<br>
                                Committee members to the Chairperson.
                                The BoD will then vote to accept or
                                reject the proposed<br>
                                Committee members.<br>
                                • The Chairperson and Committee members
                                agree to work as a team and reach a
                                consensus on the<br>
                                Committee’s proposals. They agree to
                                support the Committee’s proposal and not
                                submit separate<br>
                                proposals on these sequences to the BoD.<br>
                                • The Committee shall perform their
                                tasks within the schedule of milestones
                                as defined by the BoD.<br>
                                • The Committee will produce proposed
                                changes to sequences based on input from
                                the membership<br>
                                and their experience. The sequences will
                                be published in the K Factor and on the
                                NSRCA website<br>
                                for review.<br>
                                • The Committee will coordinate with the
                                Rules/Judging Committee Chairperson to
                                produce the<br>
                                final proposals, with supporting
                                rationale, to be approved by the BoD.<br>
                                • Sequences for Sportsman, Intermediate,
                                Advanced and Masters Class will be
                                developed for<br>
                                presentation to and review by the
                                precision aerobatics community on the
                                NSRCA website. New<br>
                                sequences may not necessarily be
                                presented for all classes.<br>
                                <br>
                                <font color="#3366ff">I have
                                  cherry-picked the pertinent sections
                                  from the document but have also
                                  attached the complete document.  It's
                                  pretty clear that the directives
                                  contained here were not followed. The
                                  current committee makeup does not
                                  conform to the document in terms of
                                  consensus,  geographical distribution,
                                  number of members or the requirement
                                  for a current board member.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  On another subject, It is my
                                  understanding from when I was on the
                                  board that the NSRCA board proposes
                                  the ED to the AMA. Once that is done,
                                  the ED responsibility  is to the AMA
                                  not the NSRCA. At that point, the
                                  NSRCA no longer has any authority over
                                  the ED. If that is still the case, how
                                  is the <i>board</i> creating Co-EDs
                                  or changing the ED? And directing
                                  change to the finals from the
                                  originally published setup when this
                                  is solely up to the ED? It is very
                                  late to be running surveys and
                                  reevaluating procedures with the start
                                  barely a month away. Even the survey
                                  itself seems to be problematic. I've
                                  attended four of the last six Nats,
                                  year before last in Masters but didn't
                                  qualify for the survey? <br>
                                  <br>
                                  Also we are finding out that the F3A
                                  finals have been changed back to the
                                  normal format. We find this out
                                  because Jon had a long conversation
                                  with Joe and posted on the list? I
                                  can't find anything on the website
                                  about the Co-CD change, the survey,
                                  the change to the F3A final or what's
                                  going on with the sequence committee,
                                  committee members or committee members
                                  that have resigned and been replaced.
                                  The Masters finals sequence that was
                                  developed without establishing any
                                  sequence guidelines( at least not that
                                  were  published) or buyin from the
                                  board is a case in point of the lack
                                  of transparency of the current
                                  committee.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  John Gayer<br>
                                </font></font></font></font><br>
                          <div class="aolmail_moz-cite-prefix">On
                            6/18/2017 6:25 AM, Jon Lowe via
                            NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote cite="about:blank">
                            <div dir="ltr">Joe and I had a LONG
                              conversation Saturday about the NATS,
                              sequences, and NSRCA in general.  This
                              email is what I heard based on that
                              conversation and he knows I'm writing
                              this. I've known Joe for a number of
                              years, and we are good friends, so we had
                              a very frank discussion. I don't think I
                              swallowed any koolade, but you be the
                              judge.</div>
                            <div dir="ltr">First though, I am as guilty
                              as anyone in reacting to stuff on this
                              discussion list, without picking up the
                              phone or calling people directly. No
                              excuse, but modern media at work. I should
                              know, as a past president of NSRCA, how
                              hard it can be to get to ground truth
                              sometimes, and to make sure accurate info
                              is distributed. For that, I apologize.</div>
                            <div dir="ltr">One thing I didn't realize,
                              was that until yesterday, Joe was not on
                              this discussion list. He's primarily used
                              the NSRCA Facebook page. He's catching up
                              now with all of the discussions here over
                              the past couple of weeks.</div>
                            <div dir="ltr">You've probably seen by now
                              the letter on Mike Harrison and Al Glenn
                              being co-EDs for the NATS. Joe realizes
                              that decision and clarification had not
                              been made either to them, the NSRCA BoD,
                              or the membership, and it wasn't
                              documented on the NSRCA website. Joe and
                              the BoD are working on remedies to make
                              sure oversights like that don't happen
                              again. The BoD meeting was a couple of
                              nights ago, and it was clarified then, and
                              put out to the membership.</div>
                            <div dir="ltr">The changes to the format of
                              the NATS was also discussed. The final
                              format is the EDs call, as long as it is
                              by the rule book. But as I reminded Joe,
                              the finals for Masters was eliminated a
                              couple of years ago to great hue and cry
                              when it was unnecessary to use the matrix
                              system, and was reinstated the following
                              year. So tread carefully. He pointed out
                              that this year's NATS is trying something
                              that hasn't been done in years, and that
                              some changes happen as a result. This
                              should have been better communicated to
                              the membership. The survey that went out
                              yesterday was to affected entrants to last
                              year's and this year's NATS.  However, if
                              the changes to the finals are affecting
                              your decision on whether or not to enter
                              the NATS, I urge you to contact Joe. His
                              email and phone number are in the back of
                              any KFactor. He did say that so far the
                              survey is about 80% for the shortened
                              Masters finals. I don't know though how
                              many responses he's received.
                              Incidentally, FAI has reverted to a 2-F,
                              2- unknown finals format, according to
                              Joe.</div>
                            <div dir="ltr">He realizes that NSRCA and
                              the membership is in a time crunch for
                              vetting and getting approval for the new
                              AMA sequences for next year. The BoD first
                              saw them a few hours before we did, and it
                              became clear during the BoD meeting that
                              they needed a separate meeting to discuss
                              and vet them. Significant discussion
                              centered around the proposal for a
                              Master's class finals. That isn't
                              contemplated in the Sequence guide, and
                              there hasn't been any decision on putting
                              that before the membership or not. 
                              According to Joe, neither he, nor other 
                              members of the BoD knew that a finals
                              sequence would be proposed, total
                              surprise. Obviously, to get feedback to
                              make necessary changes, get approval from
                              the membership, final approval by the BoD
                              and to publish all of the new sequences by
                              years end is going to be tough. Joe
                              clearly understands that challenge.  In
                              addition, he said he recalls no discussion
                              one way or the other during the BoD
                              meeting about distributing what they got
                              from the sequence committee to the general
                              membership. I told him I felt that the
                              sooner they get feedback the better, and
                              he agreed. Constructive feedback to Joe or
                              your District VP is encouraged. I know
                              there have been some personal issues that
                              resulted from the distribution of the
                              sequences, and Joe and others are working
                              to correct those problems. I hope they can
                              be resolved also. Those involved will know
                              what I'm talking about.</div>
                            <div dir="ltr">It still is not clear to me,
                              and I think Joe, why the sequences we're
                              developed in such secrecy.  This
                              definitely didn't help the current
                              controversy. I told Joe that drafts should
                              have been out months ago for comment. He
                              agreed that this needs to be the process
                              going forward, and the procedure guide for
                              developing the sequences may need
                              clarification for timelines and
                              transparency.</div>
                            <div dir="ltr">One of the things I faced,
                              and Joe is facing, is loss of corporate
                              knowledge anytime there is new leadership
                              in charge. This is especially true of
                              volunteer organizations with no central
                              office. I have some things I think can
                              help, and I will make sure Joe gets them.
                              If you have old files or other information
                              you think might benefit him or the BoD,
                              please contact him.</div>
                            <div dir="ltr">I emphasized to Joe the need
                              for fast communication on hot topics, even
                              to say they're working on it, and will get
                              back to us. He gets it, and I think being
                              on this list he will get and can react to
                              the hot issues of the moment.</div>
                            <div dir="ltr">Do I agree with everything
                              Joe said and the BoDs actions? Of course
                              not; I'd be surprised if I did. Pattern
                              fliers are, if nothing else, opinionated
                              SOB's. Can they do better, especially with
                              communication? Surely, and I think Joe
                              gets that. And I'm going to try to improve
                              my communication with Joe and my DVP,
                              Larry Kauffman, before I express
                              displeasure here.</div>
                            <div dir="ltr">Jon<br>
                              <br>
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