<p dir="ltr">This change will drive motor manufacturers to develop lower kV motors to effectively use the power.  The lower kV motors will need larger props to take advantage of the higher torque.  This will mean taller landing gear to accommodate the larger props.</p>
<p dir="ltr">That's just a quick and dirty on the Ripple effect a change to 12S will cause.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Rob</p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Nov 10, 2016 10:40 AM, "S. McNickle via NSRCA-discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000"><div>There was some discussion of this topic at the D4 championships and Brenner Sharp said the change would likely require some re-design of his contra drive.  I think it's important to research all the unintended consequences.</div><div><br></div><div>Scott</div><div><br></div><hr id="m_-7785237317036332516zwchr"><div style="color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><b>From: </b>"Andrew Jesky via NSRCA-discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>><br><b>To: </b>"Keith Hoard" <<a href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com" target="_blank">klhoard@outlook.com</a>>, "General pattern discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>><br><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, November 10, 2016 10:54:41 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12S for F3A<br><div><br></div><div>I have been testing 12s for the past few years and really think it has potential. Keeping output power the same the efficiency is what you gain.  Keeping the same weight in packs I've gone to 12s4600's. Running a 21.5x13 prop on a 188kv motor I'm drawing 59amps, my batteries come down after 7:30 flights at 3.81-3.82 per cell. </div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516AppleMailSignature">The key with going to 12 cells IMO is not getting more power but increasing longevity of the batteries as they are not being pushed as hard.</div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516AppleMailSignature">Andrew <br><div><br></div>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Nov 10, 2016, at 8:41 AM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:<br><div><br></div></div><blockquote><div><div class="m_-7785237317036332516WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-7785237317036332516__MailEndCompose" class="m_-7785237317036332516mceItemAnchor"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Since the “Upper Classes” want this change, then I’m sure it will happen.</span></a></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">-Keith Hoard</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">-<a href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com" target="_blank">klhoard@outlook.com</a></span></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p><span></span><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-<wbr>bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 10, 2016 09:34<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 12S for F3A</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p>Unlike removing the weight limit (which I think would obsolete current equipment) it is not as clear to me that going to 12S would.  We still have the 5Kg weight to limit plane growth.  So if it would make it easier not to burn up battery packs, and or produce more power if wanted or longer flight times then it seems like a good change.  </p><p>I do have a 12S heli and although 10S makes a nice snap when connected, 12S is a real manly snap/spark when connected :)</p><p>Stuart</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 11/10/2016 10:11 AM, Bill Pritchett via NSRCA-discussion wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9098"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">I think adding 12S makes sense - it would have zero impact on anyone flying an AMA class so there's nothing to buy.  Those in FAI would have the opportunity to fly F without trashing batteries all the time.  I'm all for it and suggest that if others agree we let our opinions be known as Mark suggests.  The F3C precedent is worth noting, but there are very real and practical (unique to us) reasons to pursue this in F3A.  </p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9097"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white">Bill</p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8940"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8939"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8938"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9003"><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><hr size="1" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> "Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion" <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org></a><br><b>To:</b> Anthony Romano <a href="mailto:anthonyr105@hotmail.com" target="_blank"><anthonyr105@hotmail.com></a>; General pattern discussion <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org></a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 10, 2016 9:46 AM<br><b id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9005">Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM meeting in Muncie</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8937"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8936"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Well….  At face value, much like the F3C community (already running 12S), the higher voltage allows you to produce the same wattage with a lower amp draw.  More efficient on the batteries, and everything runs much cooler which is better on the motors, batteries and ESC’s.   </span></p><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9001"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9012"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">The concern of course is that it potentially allows for more power if you chose to still pull the high current.  The proponent argument is that power is currently unbound (on the glow side) and we’re not seeing any changes to designs and this would allow much more efficient systems.</span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9006"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9000"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8999"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">If there is a strong feeling about this, comments from the community really can drive the issue (in either direction).</span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9007"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9008"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">-M</span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9009"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8935"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8934"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8933"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8932"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8931"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8930"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8929"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8928"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8927"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8925"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8923"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8922"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8921"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">MARK </span></b></span><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#80bd01">ATWOOD</span></b></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8943"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8942"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9026"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#65646a">o.  <a href="tel:%28440%29%20229-2502" value="+14402292502" target="_blank">(440) 229-2502</a></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#65646a">c.  <a href="tel:%28216%29%20316-2489" value="+12163162489" target="_blank">(216) 316-2489</a></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9132"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#65646a">e.  </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#65646a">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</span></span></a></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9140"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Paragon Consulting, Inc.</span></b></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8998"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124</span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8996"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#65646a"><a><span style="color:purple">www.paragon-inc.com</span></a></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_8941"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><span style="font-size:2.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#65646a"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9125"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Powering The Digital Experience</span></b></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9110"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9142"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">On Nov 10, 2016, at 9:39 AM, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion <<a>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9109"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142divtagdefaultwrapper"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9162"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">What does that do for us?</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9112"><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><hr size="4" width="2717" style="width:1018.7pt" align="center"></span></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142divRplyFwdMsg"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">NSRCA-discussion <<a>nsrca-discussion-bounces@<wbr>lists.nsrca.org</a>> on behalf of cahochhalter via NSRCA-discussion <<a>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, November 10, 2016 8:58 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142apple-converted-space"> </span>art zap; General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM meeting in Muncie</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p></div></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9111"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Please propose 12s power setup.</span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9122"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9123"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9124"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9121"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yiv2940155142composer_signature"><div id="m_-7785237317036332516yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1478786687267_9113"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#364f67">Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><div><br></div><br><p></p><pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________</pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</pre><pre><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/nsrca-<wbr>discussion</a></pre></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote><div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br><span>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/nsrca-<wbr>discussion</a></span></div></blockquote><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/nsrca-<wbr>discussion</a></div><div><br></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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