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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Actually it’s fixed point in our case but the problem is that
the degree of precision combined with the way things are rounded causes more
problems than you might think. The rounding only applies if there as an odd
number of half-point deductions. So an 8 (even number of ½-point deductions) stays
as an 8 but and 8.5 (odd number of ½-point deductions) becomes a 9. The ½ point
difference turns into a full-point in the actual score. If this happens enough
times…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>John Pavlick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cell: 203-417-4971<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=91 height=39 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.png@01D1EC16.CCED8990" alt=idslogo2><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Integrated Development Services</span><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Peter Vogel
[mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 01, 2016 4:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Pavlick; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI 1/2 points<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I still question the interpretation of the rules here.
This is from the FAI sporting code:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Each judge gives a mark for each manoeuvre during a flight.
Assuming the highest mark 10 at the start of each manoeuvre, every <b>defect</b>
is subject to <b>downgrade</b> of the mark in whole numbers (<b>or in half
numbers for slight defects, but in sum resulting in up-rounded whole numbers</b>).
A high score should remain only if no substantial, severe or multiple defects
are found.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The original methodology I had implemented in the electronic
scribe resulted in a cumulative downgrade of 1.5 points being up-rounded to 2
points of DEFECT, resulting in a final score of 8, effectively rounding the
final score DOWN. We asked for a clarification from Michael Ramel but I'm
not sure he understood the clarification we were asking for! The current
implementation in both MasterScoring and the electronic scribe is that 1.5 is
deducted from the final score (8.5) which is then up-rounded to 9. What I
do not like about that is it means that a maneuver with a total of one minor
defect (for a 0.5 deduction) gets a perfect 10 instead of an imperfect 9.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Peter+<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 1:31 PM, John Pavlick via
NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i>"</i><i><span
style='font-size:9.5pt'>No particular reason was given for the rounding up...
They preferred it versus rounding down.</span>"</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Well
that sounds like a scientific explanation. Since it makes no reference to how
floating point numbers and quantization errors actually work, we’ll have to
accept it as fact. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:#1F497D'>J</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John
Pavlick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cell:
<a href="tel:203-417-4971" target="_blank">203-417-4971</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img
border=0 width=91 height=39 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:image001.png@01D1EC16.CCED8990" alt=idslogo2></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Integrated
Development Services</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott
Smith via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 01, 2016 3:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Stuart Chale; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI 1/2 points</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
asked that same question and was told:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i>"</i><i><span
style='font-size:9.5pt'>No particular reason was given for the rounding up...
They preferred it versus rounding down.</span>"</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Some
ideas and changes are just plain stupid! There I said it :)<br>
<br>
I have always hated the fact that some judging criteria and downgrades<br>
were different in FAI and AMA. Makes judging which is a tough job to do<br>
right even tougher. You have to know 2 different sets of rules and in<br>
the long run only lowers the accuracy of judging, most likely more so<br>
for the FAI fliers. But that is another can of worms.<br>
<br>
I thought that allowing 1/2 points in FAI sounded like a good idea, we<br>
are used to it in the rest of the classes. And since the FAI pilots are<br>
in most part the better fliers they are more likely to make the 1/2<br>
point errors as compared to the greater inaccuracies usually seen in the<br>
lower classes.<br>
<br>
But wait an 8.5 becomes a 9, and a 9 is still a 9 ??????<br>
<br>
So just to prove how silly this idea can be I used Scott's scoring<br>
program and ran a fictitious contest with 2 flyers and 2 rounds. I used<br>
a couple of friends as contestants so to not offend anyone. I also had<br>
to use the masters sequence as an example, as the program automatically<br>
rounds up FAI scores.<br>
<br>
Hopefully the PDF files are attached.<br>
<br>
Each flyer received identical scores in each of their 2 flights. AR<br>
received all 7.5's except one maneuver which was an 8.5, and DL all 8's<br>
. In round 1 scores were not rounded up and in round 2 the scores were<br>
rounded up as they would automatically be done in FAI.<br>
<br>
Look at the files for AR round 1 and DL round 1. It would seem
pretty<br>
obvious who should win that round and without rounding up AR gets a<br>
947.75 to DL's 1000.<br>
<br>
Note that every maneuver but one was judged higher for DL.<br>
<br>
Now look at AR round 2 and DL round 2 rounded up. The same exact judges<br>
scores with only 1 maneuver scored higher for AR, but due to the<br>
rounding up AR wins the round 1000 to 989.86.<br>
<br>
Now this is the extreme and unlikely to actually happen in a contest to<br>
this extent but just the fact that it works this way makes the whole<br>
idea of rounding up ridiculous.<br>
<br>
Is there really an argument that this is a good thing?<br>
<br>
Stuart C.<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br clear=all>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics
District X<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics
(NSRCA)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=200 height=154 id="_x0000_i1026"
src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"><img
border=0 width=200 height=136 id="_x0000_i1027"
src="https://googledrive.com/host/0B4LOPeyGAgOJUVJmU1dJMVl6WWc/AcademyModelAeronauticsLogo.png"><o:p></o:p></p>
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