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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Yeah but how does all of that apply to braking? Under
non-braking conditions the motor speed is assumed to be directly related to the
commutation rate. The only tricky part is getting it all to start moving. You
sometimes see speed controllers that have problems doing this but for the most
part – on airplanes anyway – it’s not much of an issue. Braking is a lot
different. Maybe I’m over-thinking this – you certainly have a LOT more
experience tuning Pattern motors & speed controls than I do. What gives
you the most difficulty when you’re tuning the braking parameters and why? I’m
going to have to learn all of this the hard way this year. </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>John Pavlick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cell: 203-417-4971<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=90 height=39 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.png@01D173FF.3BA1CFD0" alt=idslogo2><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Integrated Development Services</span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave
Lockhart via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 01, 2016 8:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Jas'; 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Braking question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The rate of commutation increases as RPM and pole count
increase.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If an ESC can commutate at say 180,000 times per minute, it
could run a 4 pole motor (geared inrunner like Neu) at 45,000 RPM or a 28 pole
motor (some of the Q80s) at 6,428 RPM. In practice, if an ESC can not
commutate fast enough, it may still work ok at partial throttle, or it may
behave erratically throughout the throttle range – hesitations, stuttering,
surging, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jas via
NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 01, 2016 2:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Braking question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Only thing is the OS/Futaba esc's don't like 28-pole motors.
Not sure why.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iP<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Mar 1, 2016, at 1:35 PM, David Harmon via NSRCA-discussion <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>Hi John….could be but the OS 1100HV and Futaba MC 9100A work
great without screeching or any other operational problems.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>The brake is very effective and I have had the brake setting
adjusted between 50 and 90 on various 2 and 3 blade props as large as a Mejzlik
22 x 12 2 blade and Mejzlik and Falcon 3 blades.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>The hand held ‘loader’ is small enough to put into the
transmitter case and you can make quick changes at the field between flights
without a computer or other hardware.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>Both ESC are clones to each other…they look exactly alike except
for the mfgrs sticker.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>The loader is also clone across both mfgrs and operationally are
exactly alike….in fact I have only one loader and use it on both ESC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>All available at RC Japan….tower does not have them anymore
because they said sales was too slow…arrgh</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>I am using the Plettenberg Advance motors at 15 degrees timing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>73</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>David Harmon</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>K6XYZ</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>Sperry, OK</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 1, 2016 12:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion' <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Braking question</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The reason this is so touchy BTW is because you guys are using
sensor-less brushless motors. Commutation takes place in the speed control. This
works fairly well when the speed controller is driving the motor. When it’s the
other way around however – not so much. I bet if someone came out with a motor
that had position sensors and a really expensive speed controller to drive it,
more people would get interested in Pattern again… LOL</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>John Pavlick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cell: 203-417-4971</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><image001.png></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Integrated Development Services</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Harmon via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 01, 2016 10:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Jon Lowe'; 'General pattern discussion'; 'Jamie'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Braking question</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>This is exactly my experience as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>David Harmon</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'>Sperry, OK</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 1, 2016 7:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jamie <<a href="mailto:jstrong49923@gmail.com">jstrong49923@gmail.com</a>>;
NSRCA <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Braking question</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>ESC dependent. Castle ESC braking doesn't work well over 30% in my
experience, without screeching. I set my OS controller at 65%, and it works
fine. Jason goes as high as 90% with an OS. Some other controllers don't work
well with braking at all, such as the YEP controllers from HobbyKing.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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