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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>The multi-rotor scourge is in no way comparable to helis. Heli's require smarts, skill, patience. They exist for entirely different reasons than do autonomous multi-rotor stuff. This is entirely different. It's a completely incompatible activity at an RC field if a dozen or so Joe Blow's show up with them. They aren't hobbyists and you will scarcely get converts.<div><br></div><div>Ed<br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 18:17:35 +0000<br>From: vogel.peter@gmail.com<br>To: burtona@atmc.net; ed_alt@hotmail.com; nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Update - UAS Registration Frequently Asked Questions | AMA Government Relations Blog<br><br><div>Same arguments were made regarding helicopters at many fields. </div><div><br></div><div>Fundamentally, if a multi rotor pilot comes to the field (and they have), I'm going to welcome them and teach them the rules of the field (which includes the AMA safety code and how to react when full scale flys by low on their way to the airfield 6 miles down the road, or the police helicopter flies by very low doing speed control on hwy 101). </div><div><br></div><div>It's our only hope: embrace and educate. The alternative is shun and lose all opportunity to discourage unsafe/irresponsible use. </div><div><br></div><div>If you educate one in responsible use, there's a possibility they will spread that knowledge to others in the community of multi rotor pilots. </div><div><br></div><div>Peter+</div><div><br><div class="ecxacompli_signature">Sent from <a href="https://aka.ms/qtex0l" target="_blank">Outlook Mobile</a></div><br></div><br><br><br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 10:05 AM -0800, "Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion" <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Dave:<br><br>Yeah, I know that idiots are the problem. Until we figure out how to fix stupid, we should separate ourselves from the stuff that those idiots are drawn to. There's no particular reason for some clown from the non-modeling public to come to an AMA flying field. Nothing much to video, right? We'll never, ever attract them to the AMA in any kind of meaningful numbers and actually, God help us if we did. Good flying fields are hard enough to come by. Do you really want to be competing for air time against dozens of bozos who might show up just to fly a multi-rotor? No thanks.<div><br></div><div>Ed<br><div><hr id="ecxstopSpelling">From: burtona@atmc.net<br>To: ed_alt@hotmail.com; nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Update - UAS Registration Frequently Asked Questions | AMA Government Relations Blog<br>Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 12:48:12 -0500<br><br><style><!--
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--></style><div class="ecxWordSection1"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Multi rotors are not the problem. Idiots are the problem. We have a few idiots flying every type of model. I've seen an idiot chasing after a small full scale trying to get close. That was with some kind of sport airplane. Would you keep a guy away from an AMA field if he brought out a Giant scale, a pattern plane, and a multi rotor to fly all of them. I'm of the opinion I'd rather have multi rotors at an AMA field environment rather than a mall parking lot or somewhere else just a stupid.</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Dave</span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";"> NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:31 AM<br><b>To:</b> John Gayer; Larry Diamond; NSRCA List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Update - UAS Registration Frequently Asked Questions | AMA Government Relations Blog</span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">This is why it's a mistake to continue to allow multi-rotor (actual) drones at any AMA flying field. It doesn't matter that most AMA members are very responsible. It takes perhaps only one full scale incident and we could be done. I think that if you've got them, take them somewhere else. </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Ed</span></p><div><div class="ecxMsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" id="ecxstopSpelling"></span></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">To: <a href="mailto:ldiamond@diamondrc.com">ldiamond@diamondrc.com</a>; <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 09:19:42 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Update - UAS Registration Frequently Asked Questions | AMA Government Relations Blog<br>From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><br>The only time there will be a problem is with full-scale incidents. You then have a pilot saying he was at 600 feet and this "drone" shot past him vertically and it looked like the "drone" was trying to hit him. Then the only issue is who was flying the model. That is relatively simple at an AMA field given a description of the model.<br><br>A few incidents like that and we will have a hard 400 foot limit (or lower).<br><br>John</span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">On 1/16/2016 3:25 AM, Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style=""><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">The 400’ foot discussion has been interesting to follow.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Think about how they would enforce this if it were regulation and you were at a flying site.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">1)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">If they show up to the flying site, they would be conspicuous with equipment trying to document the fact you are above 400’. They must have physical evidence for it to stand up in court if the citation is issued. You simply bring your plan down to 400’ or don’t fly.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">2)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">If they were off site, it is no different than issuing speeding tickets. They must have evidence the plane they document belongs to you and they must be able to demonstrate a violation occurred and the history to show it is you without question. This will not be enforceable if they can’t testify you were physically flying the drone over 400’.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">a.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Example: An enforcement officer locks there radar on you for speeding. The officer is charged with the responsibility of maintaining a visual on you (history) or have video to show your vehicle was the one speeding. If it is only a video correlation, they must be able to demonstrate (testify) it was you driving and not somebody else, typically pulling you over within a couple of minutes. If this can’t be demonstrated (testified) to the level of beyond reasonable doubt, the charge/citation will not stick and it will be dismissed.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Were the 400’ policy does get enforced with certainty will be a post mortem event. i.e. midair collision… Outside of this type of event, it will be very difficult to police and enforce.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">It is one thing to have a policy out there. It is much different when the policy is executed and then tested in the court system.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Over simplified but the point is clear for me.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">As my favorite comedian always says, “It is only my opinion, I could be wrong”.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Larry</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dana Beaton via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 15, 2016 9:48 PM<br><b>To:</b> Peter Vogel <a href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com"><vogel.peter@gmail.com></a><br><b>Cc:</b> John Pavlick <a href="mailto:jpavlick26@att.net"><jpavlick26@att.net></a>; General pattern discussion <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Update - UAS Registration Frequently Asked Questions | AMA Government Relations Blog</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">I hear you but every time the 400' thing comes up again it's in the wrong direction and the reassurances carry no weight whatsoever in light of what has been published for us to observe to date. The distinctions will be costly for any one individual to make if unlucky to find oneself in a process. While our risk may be low flying at our club fields, times have definitely changed...</span></p></div><div id="ecxAppleMailSignature"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div id="ecxAppleMailSignature"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">The ERAU UAS course is also a real eye-opener in many respects. I think it is still open if anyone is interested. <br><br>Sent from my iPad</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>On Jan 15, 2016, at 9:27 PM, Peter Vogel <<a href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style=""><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">6.e uses the word "should", not "must" and that's a very important legal distinction, making that a guideline, not a requirement. Further, as they said on Sunday, they are aware they got that wrong and are working with the AMA to fix it.</span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Peter+</span></p></div></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Dana Beaton via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:</span></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;"><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">6.e is a real eye-opener, and a lot less ambiguous than 91-57 was in its original form. Will be interesting to see what AMA gas to say about it. Thanks for the link!<br><br>Sent from my iPad</span></p></div><div><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>On Jan 15, 2016, at 7:59 PM, Mking via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style=""><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Has anyone from the AMA commented on the new FAA Advisory Circular 91-57A Change 1?</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_91-57A_Ch_1.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_91-57A_Ch_1.pdf</a><br><br>Marty King</span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">A&P/IA</span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="mailto:mking@kingaeroaviation.com">mking@kingaeroaviation.com</a></span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">King Aero Aviation, Inc.</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">574-304-5781</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Shop:</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">24751 US 6</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Nappanee, Indiana 46550</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Office:</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">56632 Boss Blvd</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Elkhart, Indiana 46516</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="http://www.kingaeroaviation.com" target="_blank">www.kingaeroaviation.com</a></span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>On Jan 15, 2016, at 8:32 PM, John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style=""><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">And to that end I PROMISE not to shoot anyone unless they actually break into my house. Now is it OK if I buy some 30 round mag’s for my AR-15? LOL</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">John Pavlick</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Cell: 203-417-4971</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"><image001.png></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Integrated Development Services</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";"> NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 15, 2016 7:09 PM<br><b>To:</b> Dave Lockhart<br><b>Cc:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Update - UAS Registration Frequently Asked Questions | AMA Government Relations Blog</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">But Dave, did you like your doctor? The promise was "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor".</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>On Jan 15, 2016, at 7:06 PM, Dave Lockhart <<a href="mailto:davel322@comcast.net">davel322@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style=""><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">I have lots of video promising I can keep my doctor……</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 15, 2016 6:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> Peter Vogel <<a href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a>>; John Gayer <<a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">jgghome@comcast.net</a>>; NSRCA List <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Update - UAS Registration Frequently Asked Questions | AMA Government Relations Blog</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Anyone get that on video? It's just hearsay until they put it into their regulations. Meanwhile, we're signing up to a promise not to exceed 400'. It would be nice to have that video for the trial. lol</span></p><div><div class="ecxMsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 15:39:07 -0800<br>To: <a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">jgghome@comcast.net</a>; <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Update - UAS Registration Frequently Asked Questions | AMA Government Relations Blog<br>From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Yep. This was brought up directly with the FAA guy at the AMA Expo, he indicated that they got the 400' thing wrong and will be working to clarify their guidance. The guidance on the web site right now is for people not flying under an approved set of rules from a community based organization like the AMA.</span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Peter+</span></p></div></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 3:32 PM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:</span></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;"><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">This is what the AMA says about the 400 foot barrier on the FAQs page:<br><br><br></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background:white;vertical-align:baseline;"><strong><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:#333333;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in;">Q: Am I permitted to fly above 400 feet? What if I had to check a box saying otherwise on the federal registration website?</span></strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background:white;vertical-align:baseline;font-stretch:inherit;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333;">A: Yes. AMA members who abide by the AMA Safety Code, which permits flights above 400 feet under appropriate circumstances, and are protected by the Special Rule for Model Aircraft under the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act. Checking the box on the federal registration webpage signifies an understanding of the 400 foot guideline. This is an important safety principle that all UAS operators need to be aware of, and is the same guideline established in AC 91-57 published in 1981. However, the placement of this guideline on the FAA website is intended as an educational piece and more specifically intended for those operating outside of AMA’s safey program. We have been in discussions with the FAA about this point and the agency has indicted that it will be updating its website in the next week to make clear that this altitude guideline is not intended to supplant the guidance and safety procedures established in AMA’s safety program.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>Sounds clear, right? No 400 foot barrier need apply.<br>However, the following is what you have to "read, understand and follow", according to the FAA.</span></p><h1 align="center" style="text-align:center;background:whitesmoke;"><span style="font-size:21.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#006DB5;font-weight:normal;">Acknowledgement of Safety Guidance</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></h1><ul><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="color:#141414;"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">I will fly below 400 feet</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="color:#141414;"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">I will fly within visual line of sight</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="color:#141414;"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">I will be aware of FAA airspace requirements: <a href="http://www.faa.gov/go/uastfr" target="_blank">www.faa.gov/go/uastfr</a></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="color:#141414;"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">I will not fly directly over people</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="color:#141414;"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">I will not fly over stadiums and sports events</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="color:#141414;"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">I will not fly near emergency response efforts such as fires</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="color:#141414;"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">I will not fly near aircraft, especially near airports</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="color:#141414;"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">I will not fly under the influence</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></li></ul><div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid #EEEEEE 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 15.0pt 0in;"><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="http://www.faa.gov/uas/publications/model_aircraft_operators/" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#006DB5;text-decoration:none;">Learn More</span></a></span></p></div><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:15.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">[ ] I have read, understand and intend to follow the safety guidance.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>Under the "learn more" link, we find the following:<br><br></span></p><h2 style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:17.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333;">Model Aircraft Operations Limits</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></h2><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:15.75pt;background:white;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333;">According to the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 as (1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use; (2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization; (3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization; (4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; (5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower…with prior notice of the operation; and (6) the aircraft is flown within visual line sight of the operator.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><ul><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="color:#333333;line-height:15.75pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";"><a href="http://www.faa.gov/exit/?pageName=More%20information%20about%20safety%20and%20training%20guidelines&pgLnk=http://www.modelaircraft.org/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#2353BA;text-decoration:none;">More information about safety and training guidelines</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></li><li class="ecxMsoNormal" style="color:#333333;line-height:15.75pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";"><a href="http://www.faa.gov/exit/?pageName=Visit%20knowbeforeyoufly.org&pgLnk=http://www.knowbeforeyoufly.org/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#2353BA;text-decoration:none;">Visit knowbeforeyoufly.org</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></li></ul><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:15.75pt;background:white;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333;"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:15.75pt;background:white;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px;"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3333FF;">This implies that the 400 foot barrier is not a limit for model aircraft and also refers you back to the AMA FAQs above. Since the "learn more" link eventually refers you back to the AMA position on 400 feet under the "more info about safety" link, it very fuzzily appears to be supporting the position that we can still fly pattern without lying to the FAA even though we appear to be agreeing to such a limit in the "Acknowledgement".</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:15.75pt;background:white;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px;"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3333FF;">Guess I'll register.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">On 1/15/2016 3:56 PM, Patternpilot One via NSRCA-discussion wrote:</span></p></div></div></div><blockquote style=""><div><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Here is what I got from Mark Radcliff just after midnight Monday morning.</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">He was at the Expo. It has been posted all over Facebook.</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><a href="http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2016/01/11/update-uas-registration-frequently-asked-questions/" target="_blank">http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2016/01/11/update-uas-registration-frequently-asked-questions/</a> </span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Sa.</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#575757;">Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div></div><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</pre><pre><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre></blockquote><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></p></blockquote></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br><br clear="all"></span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">-- </span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)</span></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in;"><image001.jpg><image002.jpg></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style=""><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote style=""><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></p></blockquote></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br><br clear="all"></span></p><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">-- </span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X</span></p></div><div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)</span></p></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><img border="0" width="200" height="154" id="ecx_x005f_x0000_i1026" src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"><img border="0" width="200" height="136" id="ecx_x005f_x0000_i1027" src="https://googledrive.com/host/0B4LOPeyGAgOJUVJmU1dJMVl6WWc/AcademyModelAeronauticsLogo.png"></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br><br></span></p><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</pre><pre><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre></blockquote><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><br><br>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></p></div></div></div><div class="ecxMsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"><hr size="1" width="100%" noshade="" style="color:#A0A0A0;" align="center"></span></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2015.0.6176 / Virus Database: 4489/11411 - Release Date: 01/15/16</span></p></div></div></div> </div>
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