<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#3333FF">
Actually, if you follow my post through to the end, the FAA links in
the acknowledgement block take you back to the AMA FAQs, thereby
conceding in the acknowledgement block itself that AMA members can
stick with their current safety code.<br>
So the guidance is there now- on the FAA site- that we are only have
to agree to the AMA safety code.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/15/2016 4:39 PM, Peter Vogel
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGBB6k+T4swW5dUQFJ9dk8C7vOGS+KVf2o7-nDEzsGLBfK-mxg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Yep. This was brought up directly with the FAA guy
at the AMA Expo, he indicated that they got the 400' thing wrong
and will be working to clarify their guidance. The guidance on
the web site right now is for people not flying under an
approved set of rules from a community based organization like
the AMA.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Peter+</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 3:32 PM, John
Gayer via NSRCA-discussion <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#3333FF"> This is what the AMA
says about the 400 foot barrier on the FAQs page:<br>
<br>
<br>
<p style="margin:0px 0px
0.8em;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12px;line-height:22px;font-family:'Droid
Sans',arial,serif;vertical-align:baseline;clear:both;color:rgb(51,51,51);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><strong
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:bold;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">Q:
Am I permitted to fly above 400 feet? What if I had to
check a box saying otherwise on the federal
registration website?</strong></p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px
0.8em;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12px;line-height:22px;font-family:'Droid
Sans',arial,serif;vertical-align:baseline;clear:both;color:rgb(51,51,51);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">A:
Yes. AMA members who abide by the AMA Safety Code, which
permits flights above 400 feet under appropriate
circumstances, and are protected by the Special Rule for
Model Aircraft under the 2012 FAA Modernization and
Reform Act. Checking the box on the federal registration
webpage signifies an understanding of the 400 foot
guideline. This is an important safety principle that
all UAS operators need to be aware of, and is the same
guideline established in AC 91-57 published in 1981.
However, the placement of this guideline on the FAA
website is intended as an educational piece and more
specifically intended for those operating outside of
AMA’s safey program. We have been in discussions with
the FAA about this point and the agency has indicted
that it will be updating its website in the next week to
make clear that this altitude guideline is not intended
to supplant the guidance and safety procedures
established in AMA’s safety program.</p>
<br>
Sounds clear, right? No 400 foot barrier need apply.<br>
However, the following is what you have to "read,
understand and follow", according to the FAA.<br>
<h1 style="margin:30px
0px;font-family:museo_sans,'Helvetica
Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-weight:300;line-height:1.4;color:rgb(0,109,181);font-size:28px;text-align:center;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Acknowledgement
of Safety Guidance</h1>
<form name="-65408776_safetyAcknowledgementForm"
target="_blank" onsubmit='try {return
window.confirm("You are submitting information to an
external page.\nAre you sure?");} catch (e) {return
false;}'>
<ul style="margin:0px 0px 14px;padding-left:2em">
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px
20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will
fly below 400 feet</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px
20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will
fly within visual line of sight</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px
20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will
be aware of FAA airspace requirements:<span> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.faa.gov/go/uastfr"
style="color:rgb(0,109,181);text-decoration:none;font-family:museo_sans,'Helvetica
Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background:0px
0px transparent" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.faa.gov/go/uastfr">www.faa.gov/go/uastfr</a></a></p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px
20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will
not fly directly over people</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px
20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will
not fly over stadiums and sports events</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px
20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will
not fly near emergency response efforts such as
fires</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px
20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will
not fly near aircraft, especially near airports</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px
20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will
not fly under the influence</p>
</li>
</ul>
<div
style="padding-left:44px;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(238,238,238);padding-bottom:20px;margin-bottom:15px"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.faa.gov/uas/publications/model_aircraft_operators/"
style="color:rgb(0,109,181);text-decoration:none;font-family:museo_sans,'Helvetica
Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background:0px 0px
transparent" target="_blank">Learn More</a></div>
<div
style="margin-right:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-bottom:18px;font-size:1.3em">
<div
style="margin-bottom:4px;margin-right:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:5px"><label
style="font-weight:500;display:inline-block;max-width:100%;margin-bottom:0px;font-size:0.8em;color:rgb(34,34,34);padding-top:10px;text-align:left;font-family:museo_sans;text-transform:none"><input
name="acknowledge" title="I have read,
understand and intend to follow the safety
guidance." style="margin:0px 10px 0px
0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:13.3px;line-height:normal;font-family:inherit;color:inherit;padding:0px;width:auto;vertical-align:middle;display:inline"
type="checkbox"><span> </span>I have read,
understand and intend to follow the safety
guidance.</label></div>
</div>
</form>
<br>
Under the "learn more" link, we find the following:<br>
<br>
<h2 style="margin:1.5em 0px
0.214em;font-size:1.429em;line-height:1.2;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Model
Aircraft Operations Limits</h2>
<p style="margin:1.5em 0px
0.214em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:21px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">According
to the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 as (1)
the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational
use; (2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a
community-based set of safety guidelines and within the
programming of a nationwide community-based
organization; (3) the aircraft is limited to not more
than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a
design, construction, inspection, flight test, and
operational safety program administered by a
community-based organization; (4) the aircraft is
operated in a manner that does not interfere with and
gives way to any manned aircraft; (5) when flown within
5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft
provides the airport operator and the airport air
traffic control tower…with prior notice of the
operation; and (6) the aircraft is flown within visual
line sight of the operator.<br>
</p>
<ul style="margin:1.5em 0px
0.214em;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:21px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<li><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.faa.gov/exit/?pageName=More%20information%20about%20safety%20and%20training%20guidelines&pgLnk=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emodelaircraft%2Eorg%2F"
style="color:rgb(35,83,186);text-decoration:none;padding-right:13px;background:url("")
100% 50% no-repeat" target="_blank">More information
about safety and training guidelines</a></li>
<li><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.faa.gov/exit/?pageName=Visit%20knowbeforeyoufly%2Eorg&pgLnk=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eknowbeforeyoufly%2Eorg%2F"
style="color:rgb(35,83,186);text-decoration:none;padding-right:13px;background:url("")
100% 50% no-repeat" target="_blank">Visit
knowbeforeyoufly.org</a></li>
</ul>
<p style="margin:1.5em 0px
0.214em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:21px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin:1.5em 0px
0.214em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:21px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><big><font
color="#3333ff">This implies that the 400 foot
barrier is not a limit for model aircraft and also
refers you back to the AMA FAQs above. Since the
"learn more" link eventually refers you back to the
AMA position on 400 feet </font></big><big><font
color="#3333ff"><font color="#3333ff">under the
"more info about safety" link</font>, it very
fuzzily appears to be supporting the position that
we can still fly pattern without lying to the FAA
even though we appear to be agreeing to such a limit
in the "Acknowledgement".</font></big><br>
</p>
<p style="margin:1.5em 0px
0.214em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:21px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><big><font
color="#3333ff">Guess I'll register.</font></big><br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<div class="h5"> <br>
<br>
<div>On 1/15/2016 3:56 PM, Patternpilot One via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>Here is what I got from Mark Radcliff just
after midnight Monday morning.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>He was at the Expo. It has been posted all
over Facebook.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2016/01/11/update-uas-registration-frequently-asked-questions/"
target="_blank">http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2016/01/11/update-uas-registration-frequently-asked-questions/</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sa.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757">Sent from
my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<pre>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</div>
<div>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark</div>
<div>Associate Vice President, Academy of Model
Aeronautics District X</div>
<div>Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control
Aerobatics (NSRCA)</div>
<img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"
height="154" width="200"><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://googledrive.com/host/0B4LOPeyGAgOJUVJmU1dJMVl6WWc/AcademyModelAeronauticsLogo.png"
height="136" width="200"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>