<div dir="ltr">Yep. This was brought up directly with the FAA guy at the AMA Expo, he indicated that they got the 400' thing wrong and will be working to clarify their guidance. The guidance on the web site right now is for people not flying under an approved set of rules from a community based organization like the AMA.<div><br></div><div>Peter+</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 3:32 PM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#3333FF">
This is what the AMA says about the 400 foot barrier on the FAQs
page:<br>
<br>
<br>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 0.8em;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12px;line-height:22px;font-family:'Droid Sans',arial,serif;vertical-align:baseline;clear:both;color:rgb(51,51,51);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><strong style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:bold;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">Q: Am I permitted to fly above 400
feet? What if I had to check a box saying otherwise on the
federal registration website?</strong></p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 0.8em;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12px;line-height:22px;font-family:'Droid Sans',arial,serif;vertical-align:baseline;clear:both;color:rgb(51,51,51);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">A: Yes. AMA members who
abide by the AMA Safety Code, which permits flights above 400 feet
under appropriate circumstances, and are protected by the Special
Rule for Model Aircraft under the 2012 FAA Modernization and
Reform Act. Checking the box on the federal registration webpage
signifies an understanding of the 400 foot guideline. This is an
important safety principle that all UAS operators need to be aware
of, and is the same guideline established in AC 91-57 published in
1981. However, the placement of this guideline on the FAA website
is intended as an educational piece and more specifically intended
for those operating outside of AMA’s safey program. We have been
in discussions with the FAA about this point and the agency has
indicted that it will be updating its website in the next week to
make clear that this altitude guideline is not intended to
supplant the guidance and safety procedures established in AMA’s
safety program.</p>
<br>
Sounds clear, right? No 400 foot barrier need apply.<br>
However, the following is what you have to "read, understand and
follow", according to the FAA.<br>
<h1 style="margin:30px 0px;font-family:museo_sans,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-weight:300;line-height:1.4;color:rgb(0,109,181);font-size:28px;text-align:center;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Acknowledgement of Safety
Guidance</h1>
<form name="-65408776_safetyAcknowledgementForm" target="_blank" onsubmit="try {return window.confirm("You are submitting information to an external page.\nAre you sure?");} catch (e) {return false;}">
<ul style="margin:0px 0px 14px;padding-left:2em">
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will fly below
400 feet</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will fly within
visual line of sight</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will be aware
of FAA airspace requirements:<span> </span><a href="http://www.faa.gov/go/uastfr" style="color:rgb(0,109,181);text-decoration:none;font-family:museo_sans,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background:0px 0px transparent" target="_blank">www.faa.gov/go/uastfr</a></p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will not fly
directly over people</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will not fly
over stadiums and sports events</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will not fly
near emergency response efforts such as fires</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will not fly
near aircraft, especially near airports</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;font-size:1.2em;color:rgb(20,20,20)">I will not fly
under the influence</p>
</li>
</ul>
<div style="padding-left:44px;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(238,238,238);padding-bottom:20px;margin-bottom:15px"><a href="http://www.faa.gov/uas/publications/model_aircraft_operators/" style="color:rgb(0,109,181);text-decoration:none;font-family:museo_sans,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;background:0px 0px transparent" target="_blank">Learn
More</a></div>
<div style="margin-right:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-bottom:18px;font-size:1.3em">
<div style="margin-bottom:4px;margin-right:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-bottom:1px;padding-top:5px"><label style="font-weight:500;display:inline-block;max-width:100%;margin-bottom:0px;font-size:0.8em;color:rgb(34,34,34);padding-top:10px;text-align:left;font-family:museo_sans;text-transform:none"><input name="acknowledge" title="I have read, understand and intend
to follow the safety guidance." style="margin:0px 10px 0px 0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:13.3px;line-height:normal;font-family:inherit;color:inherit;padding:0px;width:auto;vertical-align:middle;display:inline" type="checkbox"><span> </span>I have read,
understand and intend to follow the safety guidance.</label></div>
</div>
</form>
<br>
Under the "learn more" link, we find the following:<br>
<br>
<h2 style="margin:1.5em 0px 0.214em;font-size:1.429em;line-height:1.2;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Model Aircraft Operations
Limits</h2>
<p style="margin:1.5em 0px 0.214em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:21px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">According to the FAA
Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 as (1) the aircraft is flown
strictly for hobby or recreational use; (2) the aircraft is
operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety
guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide
community-based organization; (3) the aircraft is limited to not
more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design,
construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety
program administered by a community-based organization; (4) the
aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and
gives way to any manned aircraft; (5) when flown within 5 miles of
an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport
operator and the airport air traffic control tower…with prior
notice of the operation; and (6) the aircraft is flown within
visual line sight of the operator.<br>
</p>
<ul style="margin:1.5em 0px 0.214em;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:21px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<li><a href="http://www.faa.gov/exit/?pageName=More%20information%20about%20safety%20and%20training%20guidelines&pgLnk=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emodelaircraft%2Eorg%2F" style="color:rgb(35,83,186);text-decoration:none;padding-right:13px;background:url("") 100% 50% no-repeat" target="_blank">More information about safety and
training guidelines</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.faa.gov/exit/?pageName=Visit%20knowbeforeyoufly%2Eorg&pgLnk=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eknowbeforeyoufly%2Eorg%2F" style="color:rgb(35,83,186);text-decoration:none;padding-right:13px;background:url("") 100% 50% no-repeat" target="_blank">Visit knowbeforeyoufly.org</a></li>
</ul>
<p style="margin:1.5em 0px 0.214em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:21px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin:1.5em 0px 0.214em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:21px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><big><font color="#3333ff">This
implies that the 400 foot barrier is not a limit for model
aircraft and also refers you back to the AMA FAQs above. Since
the "learn more" link eventually refers you back to the AMA
position on 400 feet </font></big><big><font color="#3333ff"><font color="#3333ff">under the "more info about safety" link</font>,
it very fuzzily appears to be supporting the position that we
can still fly pattern without lying to the FAA even though we
appear to be agreeing to such a limit in the "Acknowledgement".</font></big><br>
</p>
<p style="margin:1.5em 0px 0.214em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:FreeSans,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:21px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><big><font color="#3333ff">Guess
I'll register.</font></big><br>
<br>
</p><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
<div>On 1/15/2016 3:56 PM, Patternpilot One
via NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5">
<div>Here is what I got from Mark Radcliff just after midnight
Monday morning.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>He was at the Expo. It has been posted all over Facebook.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<a href="http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2016/01/11/update-uas-registration-frequently-asked-questions/" target="_blank">http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2016/01/11/update-uas-registration-frequently-asked-questions/</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sa.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757">Sent from my Verizon
Wireless 4G LTE smartphone</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
</div></div><pre>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</div><div>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark</div><div>Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X</div><div>Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)</div><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg" width="200" height="154"><img src="https://googledrive.com/host/0B4LOPeyGAgOJUVJmU1dJMVl6WWc/AcademyModelAeronauticsLogo.png" width="200" height="136"><br></div></div></div></div>
</div>