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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>The issue is, where do you tell the FAA to put its number?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>--Keith Hoard<br>--klhoard@outlook.com</p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;border:none;padding:0in'><br><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, December 18, 2015 12:29<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Just to add to the absurdity of this whole thing: Since I already have my AMA number on one wing and my NSRCA number on the other wing I'm running out of space for "numbers". Where do I put my FAA number??? Should I build biplanes from now on? LOL<br><br>John Pavlick<br>Cell: 203-417-4971<br><br><br>Integrated Development Services<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf Of John FORD via NSRCA-discussion<br>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 12:18 PM<br>To: General pattern discussion; chuenkan@comcast.net<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21<br><br>It isn't that cut and dried to 500 feet for full-size aircraft. <br>When flying out in the back 40, you need to high enough to make a safe emergency landing and/or at least 500 feet from anyone, in any direction, pretty much.<br><br>So if the RC field is out in the boonies, the full scale pilot may legally be OK flying at pretty much any altitude especially if he thinks he is all alone...<br><br>John<br><br>On Dec 18, 2015 11:56 AM, Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> wrote:<br>><br>> Well,, Dana, our "smaller, unmanned aircraft" are supposedly limited to 400' AGL, and "real aircraft" are limited to a lower altitude of 500' AGL, as I understand things. That is 100' of separation, which for our under 55# aircraft is a lot of space. I would not want my pattern plane within 100' of any full-scale aircraft -- air turbulence being as destructive as it is. I land quickly when a helicopter or experimental aircraft comes low over our field, which they sometimes do -- we have even had an ultra-light land on our paved runway -- albeit with prior arrangements with us on the ground.<br>><br>> Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary<br>> AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member<br>> SPA L-18, Board Member<br>> (865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c<br>><br>><br>> ________________________________<br>> For those with an appetite for reading into the FARs, would suggest looking into topics like see and avoid, right of way; the basics of navigation and aviation law as they apply to smaller craft giving way to larger craft. We can read with the thought in mind that our smaller craft are unmanned and larger craft typically have souls on board. These sort of mundane things are probably more what the FAA is concerned about as we share the NAS with full scale aircraft. When we put conspiracy theories aside, and our general resistance to onerous regulation, there are some things that do make sense even if we object to how Uncle Sam is going about it. Of course, this is preaching to the choir of elite, highly skilled, precision aerobatic pattern pilots and not the guys out there causing hazards to navigation LOL! I think John Ford is making the right distinctions below, as I myself understand the FARs. Cheers!<br>><br>><br>> > On Dec 18, 2015, at 10:43 AM, John FORD via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> wrote:<br>> > <br>> > Those things apply if you wish to maintain the validity of an airworthiness certificate, which no model airplane under 55 lbs has.<br>> > <br>> > The FAA wants to consider models as aircraft in the NAS, not to manage category, class, or airworthiness.<br>> > <br>> > J<br>> > <br>> > On Dec 18, 2015 10:20 AM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >> <a href="http://dronelawjournal.com/">http://dronelawjournal.com/</a><br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> There's some light reading for those of you who still think this is just about “putting a number” on our plane. The FAA considers models subject to the same Part 91 rules as full scale planes.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> The certificated mechanics on this list can chime in with how many FAA Part 91 violations a typical pattern plane is now out of compliance. Does your 2M plane have a magnetic compass? When is the last time it was swung and documented by an A&P? Does your glow engine have two magnetos? Do you document discrepancies in a logbook? Documented an annual? How about a horizon attitude reference with two power sources? How about a calibrated altimeter and airsoeed indicator? All of that is before you even get the plane out of your truck. How many of you know your VFR cloud clearances? <br>> >> <br>> >> --Keith Hoard<br>> >> --klhoard@outlook.com<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> From: Ronald Van Putte via NSRCA-discussion<br>> >> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 8:52<br>> >> To: General pattern discussion<br>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Registration begins December 21<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> That is ridiculous! They wouldn’t knock at the door, they’d knock in in!<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:03 PM, W Anthony Abdullah via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> wrote:<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> # 4 sounds scary! Something about "immediate and targeted education activities" makes me a little uneasy. A knock at the door at 3:00AM and a nightstick to the head can be pretty educational. Not suggesting they would do that, it just doesn't feel right.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Sent from my iPad<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 5:28 PM, Dana Beaton via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> wrote:<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> From page 39-40:<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> "Registration will 1) make it easier to identify the owners of the aircraft which has been involved in an “incident;” 2) facilitate compliance and education, and when appropriate, enforcement action; 3) encourage accountability by holding owner’s responsible for use and 4) establish a future basis for FAA to engage in immediate and targeted education activities which might not otherwise occur. "<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Sent from my iPad<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 5:16 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> wrote:<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> Sorry, that was page 36 for non-political individuals.<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> Scott A. McHarg<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> Texas A&M University<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> PPL - ASEL<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Scott McHarg <scmcharg@gmail.com> wrote:<br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> According to them.....<br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> <a href="http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/2015-12-13_2120-AK82_RIA.pdf">http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/2015-12-13_2120-AK82_RIA.pdf</a><br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> "Benefits" start on page 29<br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> Scott A. McHarg<br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot<br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> Texas A&M University<br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> PPL - ASEL<br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Ted Sander via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> wrote:<br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> Missing from the official publicity of all this is the “What is this going to do?”. Is there any “official” information about what registration hopes to accomplish (as opposed to the “they’re coming to get us” theories)? Even if it was a page of “Know before you fly” info during the registration process, I would be more supportive. But all I can speculate on is that it is to “Hope we find that one little part that has the registration number on it”. We’ve all seen RC mid-airs and crashes, and know that often full recovery of parts is very difficult. If something bad happens, the odds seem pretty low that even if there is a number, it will be found and traced to the owner, even if there is one!<br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> It would perhaps be better to have the FCC mandate registering receivers/control units that have and “squawk” a unique identifier, than this poorly thought out solution!<br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> >>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>> >>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> >>>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>> >>>>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>> >>>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> >>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>> >>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>> > <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>