<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3051" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3355">Having used both Type I and IV, there are also Type II and III, they are for ground use only.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3051" dir="ltr"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3051" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3356">Type I,(usually orange) is a deice fluid applied heated or unheated to remove ice accumulations.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3051" dir="ltr"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3051" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3357">Type IV, (usually bright green) is an anti-ice fluid to prevent further accumulation by absorbing moisture and preventing it from freezing. Type IV is designed to be shed as the aircraft is accelerated for takeoff, usually at a design speed of 100 Knots.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3051" dir="ltr"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3051" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3858">Type III is designed for aircraft with lower rotation speeds, around 80 Knots. </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3051" dir="ltr"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3051" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3797">None of the fluid is "supposed" to stick, but residue is always left behind. </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3051" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3859">In flight anti-icing is provided by thermal (heated leading edges), chemical (the weeping wing concept), or mechanical (inflatable pneumatic leading edges) methods.</span></div><br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3034"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3033"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3032"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3360"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3035"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "nsrca-discussion-request@lists.nsrca.org" <nsrca-discussion-request@lists.nsrca.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, December 6, 2015 3:00 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> NSRCA-discussion Digest, Vol 121, Issue 5<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3037"><br>Send NSRCA-discussion mailing list submissions to<br> <a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3036">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3354">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> <a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-request@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-request@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-request@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> <a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-owner@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-owner@lists.nsrca.org" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1449442823815_3978">nsrca-discussion-owner@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of NSRCA-discussion digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Attention Commercial Full Scale Pilots (<a ymailto="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net" href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a>)<br> 2. Re: Attention Commercial Full Scale Pilots (Scott Smith)<br> 3. Re: Attention Commercial Full Scale Pilots (Ron Hansen)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 00:25:50 +0000 (UTC)<br>From: <a ymailto="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net" href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a><br>To: Ron Hansen <<a ymailto="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com" href="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com">rcpilot@wowway.com</a>>, nsrca-discussion<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Attention Commercial Full Scale Pilots<br>Message-ID:<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:2011982269.3225803.1449361550792.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net" href="mailto:2011982269.3225803.1449361550792.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net">2011982269.3225803.1449361550792.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Ron, My daughter works for American/US Airways (now "American" only) @ TYS (Knoxville, TN, used to work @ CLT (Charlotte, NC). She is providing the answers I'm typing in for you. <br><br>Her answers are in bold below... <br><br>Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary <br>AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member <br>SPA L-18, Board Member <br>(865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c <br><br><br>----- Original Message -----<br><br><br><br>I have a couple of questions regarding de-icing of full scale commercial jets. I?m trying to prep for being an expert witness on an environmental matter related to de-icing. <br><br><br><br>Is the purpose of the de-icing fluid just to knock off the ice prior to take off or is it also intended to remain on the plane during flight? <br><br><br><br><br>Yes, both; and Type I fluid is used to knock chunks of ice off @ high pressure, Type IV is used to inhibit ice accumulation during flight. (She may h ave the numbers reversed, but doesn't think so.) <br><br><br><br><br>Do commercial jets contain any other mechanism for preventing or stopping ice buildup during flight (e.g., heating elements)? <br><br><br><br><br>Yes, there are heating elements on the wing leading edge. (And possibly the tail.) <br><br><br><br><br>I always assumed that all de-icing activities occur out in the open. However, I?ve heard some airports now do this within enclosures. Are these enclosures two side (i.e., the plane pulls straight in one side of the enclosure and straight out the other side of the enclosure without raising and lowering doors on the entrance and exit? <br><br><br><br><br>Sharon has never seen them de-iced in an enclosure, only in the open over a drain-she does not know. The de-icing fluid is not toxic -- workers can inhale & taste it with impunity. They wear no protective (from the fluid) clothing or equipment. <br><br><br><br><br>Any other details you can provide me would be appreciated. <br><br><br><br>Thanks <br><br><br><br>Ron <br><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 12676 (20151205) __________ <br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. <br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com </a><br><br>_______________________________________________ <br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br><a ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </a><br><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20151206/06698a9f/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20151206/06698a9f/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 19:30:32 -0500<br>From: Scott Smith <<a ymailto="mailto:vze23c3q@gmail.com" href="mailto:vze23c3q@gmail.com">vze23c3q@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Daniel Dupont <<a ymailto="mailto:dansy44@gmail.com" href="mailto:dansy44@gmail.com">dansy44@gmail.com</a>>, General pattern discussion<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Attention Commercial Full Scale Pilots<br>Message-ID:<br> <CABcj=<a ymailto="mailto:iWfWycc2qMEtr4J8_EQBuNYhLpMWkXO8Wdo5ftriyh8eA@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:iWfWycc2qMEtr4J8_EQBuNYhLpMWkXO8Wdo5ftriyh8eA@mail.gmail.com">iWfWycc2qMEtr4J8_EQBuNYhLpMWkXO8Wdo5ftriyh8eA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>A little late to the party but from my A&P days...<br><br>De-Icer - Removes accumulated ice (i.e. pneumatic boots on leading edges)<br>Anti-Ice - Prevents accumulation (i.e. bleed air or weeping alcohol)<br><br>De-Icing Fluid (as in on the tarmac) is heated fluid that will melt any<br>accumulation and slow any build-up before departure on the horizontal<br>surfaces. Does nothing once the aircraft is airborne.<br><br>Electric boots on the props are referred to as de-ice but can also serve as<br>anti-ice. Pneumatic de-icers are problematic because moisture can build up<br>in the lines then freeze (just when you needed them most!) The boots are<br>held tight to the L/E by vacuum and any holes in the boot allow water to<br>enter when flying through precipitation.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Daniel Dupont via NSRCA-discussion <<br><a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br><br>> De-icer Booth would be on smaller airplanes?.like king air?size, was also<br>> used a lot in 50?s design, its a very limited system in term of how much<br>> ice it can take?..<br>><br>> Since it has to accumulate ice before engaging it?.there?s a risk of roll<br>> off?..meaning the ice might get being the booth if the precipitation are<br>> too much for the system to handle, the bleed air is the prefer method, will<br>> handle a lot of ice?.<br>><br>> Daniel iMac<br>><br>> From: NSRCA-discussion <<a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>> on<br>> behalf of Randy Forbus via NSRCA-discussion <<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>> Reply-To: Randy Forbus <<a ymailto="mailto:Rforbus@hotmail.com" href="mailto:Rforbus@hotmail.com">Rforbus@hotmail.com</a>>, General pattern discussion <<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>> Date: Saturday, December 5, 2015 at 14:21<br>> To: Ron Hansen <<a ymailto="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com" href="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com">rcpilot@wowway.com</a>>, General pattern discussion <<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Attention Commercial Full Scale Pilots<br>><br>> Most all commercial aircraft have wing deice system a heated leading edge<br>> that works off bleed air,or deice boots, which inflates to break off any<br>> ice build up<br>><br>><br>> ------------------------------<br>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <<a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>> on<br>> behalf of Ron Hansen via NSRCA-discussion <<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 5, 2015 7:08 PM<br>> *To:* NSCRA Discussion List<br>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Attention Commercial Full Scale Pilots<br>><br>><br>> I have a couple of questions regarding de-icing of full scale commercial<br>> jets. I?m trying to prep for being an expert witness on an environmental<br>> matter related to de-icing.<br>><br>><br>><br>> Is the purpose of the de-icing fluid just to knock off the ice prior to<br>> take off or is it also intended to remain on the plane during flight?<br>><br>><br>><br>> Do commercial jets contain any other mechanism for preventing or stopping<br>> ice buildup during flight (e.g., heating elements)?<br>><br>><br>><br>> I always assumed that all de-icing activities occur out in the open.<br>> However, I?ve heard some airports now do this within enclosures. Are these<br>> enclosures two side (i.e., the plane pulls straight in one side of the<br>> enclosure and straight out the other side of the enclosure without raising<br>> and lowering doors on the entrance and exit?<br>><br>><br>><br>> Any other details you can provide me would be appreciated.<br>><br>><br>><br>> Thanks<br>><br>><br>><br>> Ron<br>><br>><br>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus<br>> signature database 12676 (20151205) __________<br>><br>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br>><br>> <a href="http://www.eset.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a><br>><br>> <<a href="http://www.eset.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com/</a>><br>> ESET | Antivirus, Internet Security Software & Virus ...<br>> ESET provides award-winning antivirus and security software trusted by<br>> over 100 million users worldwide.<br>> Read more... <<a href="http://www.eset.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com/</a>><br>><br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing<br>> list <a ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20151205/25a9fd3f/attachment.html" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20151205/25a9fd3f/attachment.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 3<br>Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 11:36:42 -0500<br>From: "Ron Hansen" <<a ymailto="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com" href="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com">rcpilot@wowway.com</a>><br>To: <<a ymailto="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net" href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a>>, "'nsrca-discussion'"<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Attention Commercial Full Scale Pilots<br>Message-ID: <003901d13044$4a0eac40$de2c04c0$@wowway.com><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br><br>Thank you all for the info.<br><br> <br><br>Very helpful<br><br> <br><br>From: <a ymailto="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net" href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a> [mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net" href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a>] <br>Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 8:49 PM<br>To: Ron Hansen; nsrca-discussion<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Attention Commercial Full Scale Pilots<br><br> <br><br>Ron,<br><br> <br><br>Attached is the Dow Chemical specs sheet for (some) de-icing liquid. Hope<br>this helps you...<br><br> <br><br>Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary<br>AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member<br>SPA L-18, Board Member<br>(865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c<br><br> <br><br> <br><br> _____ <br><br>I have a couple of questions regarding de-icing of full scale commercial<br>jets. I'm trying to prep for being an expert witness on an environmental<br>matter related to de-icing.<br><br> <br><br>Is the purpose of the de-icing fluid just to knock off the ice prior to take<br>off or is it also intended to remain on the plane during flight?<br><br> <br><br>Do commercial jets contain any other mechanism for preventing or stopping<br>ice buildup during flight (e.g., heating elements)?<br><br> <br><br>I always assumed that all de-icing activities occur out in the open.<br>However, I've heard some airports now do this within enclosures. Are these<br>enclosures two side (i.e., the plane pulls straight in one side of the<br>enclosure and straight out the other side of the enclosure without raising<br>and lowering doors on the entrance and exit?<br><br> <br><br>Any other details you can provide me would be appreciated.<br><br> <br><br>Thanks<br><br> <br><br>Ron<br><br><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature<br>database 12676 (20151205) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br> <br><br><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature<br>database 12679 (20151206) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a><br><br><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature<br>database 12679 (20151206) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a><br><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20151206/95091565/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20151206/95091565/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Subject: Digest Footer<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>End of NSRCA-discussion Digest, Vol 121, Issue 5<br>************************************************<br><br><br></div> </div> </div></div></body></html>