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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p>Take an Ambien and get some sleep, will ya?</p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p>-Keith Hoard<br>-klhoard@outlook.com</p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p style='border:none;padding:0in'><br><b>From: </b>Ed Alt<br><b>Sent: </b>Saturday, October 10, 2015 17:32<br><b>To: </b>Keith Hoard;NSRCA List<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Too funny. Enough </span>silliness,<span style='font-size:12.0pt'> there's playoff baseball to watch.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><img width=708 height=1 id="Horizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.png@01D1038F.4D47C1D0"></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 15:36:41 -0400<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day<br>From: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Also, you’re charging at 2C, too high.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span></a><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Keith Hoard [mailto:klhoard@outlook.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 10, 2015 15:33<br><b>To:</b> 'nsrca-discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day<span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Well, there’s your error. You measured the temps in Fahrenheit, not Celsius.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Ed Alt [<a href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:11<br><b>To:</b> Keith Hoard <<a href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com">klhoard@outlook.com</a>>; NSRCA List <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day<span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>There are minor effects (the endothermic reaction) and there are major effects (the internal resistance of the cells). The packs get warmer when charged. I just tried it with a pair of Gens Ace 5S 5300 30C packs at a 10A charge rate each. The starting point was from a storage charge. They've been sitting in the basement shop for months. Pack one measured 65.1F and pack 2 was at 65.2F before starting the charge. Here are the readings from a brief constant current charge that I stopped at 1250 mA put into each.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>At 500 mA delivered, pack 1 was 67.9 F, pack 2 67.4 F<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>At 650 mA, 68.5 & 67.7<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>At 700 mA, 70 & 68.6<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>At 1000 mA, 71.9 & 69.9<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>At 1100 mA, 72 & 70.4<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>At 1250 mA, 72.5 & 70.9.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Maybe you could go down to some much lower charge rate at which the endothermic reaction cooling dominates, but that's not realistic. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Ed<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><img border=0 width=708 height=1 id="Horizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.png@01D1038F.4D47C1D0"></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>To: <a href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a>; <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>From: <a href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com">klhoard@outlook.com</a><br>Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day<br>Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 23:54:24 -0500<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Not silly at all. You didn’t account for the chemical reaction of the electrolyte during the charge process.<br> <br> The term the PhD’s use to describe the reaction is “endothermic”(gets colder) and has to do with that whole “energy cannot be created or destroyed, just moved around” rule.<br> <br> There are several papers on the internet written by the molecular scientists who designed LiPos.<br> <br>-Keith Hoard<br><a href="mailto:-klhoard@outlook.com">-klhoard@outlook.com</a><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br><b>From: </b>Ed Alt<br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, October 9, 2015 21:09<br><b>To: </b>Keith Hoard<br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net;General">chuenkan@comcast.net;General</a> pattern discussion<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>That wasn't a guess, it was a statement of fact. This is getting silly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>On Oct 9, 2015, at 9:09 PM, Keith Hoard <<a href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com">klhoard@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Nope. If you had another guess?<br><br>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>On Oct 9, 2015, at 20:09, Ed Alt <<a href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>They do warm up when charging, even at low rates. It's the physics behind Ohms law that governs some of that. It may not be very noticeable, but it is happening nonetheless.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>On Oct 9, 2015, at 8:03 PM, Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I would say "C" below: I have never had a lipo pack get warm during charging. That's because i always charge somewhere between 1.8-2.0 C. For my electric planes I buy enough batteries so I do not have to hurry-charge in order to get back into the air. I charge the lipos in my starter & glow igniter at home in the shop when I have plenty of time. Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I do not use $150.00 battery packs, and none of my electric planes are for pattern.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><i><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#8B8B8B'>Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary</span></i></strong><b><i><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#8B8B8B'><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member</span></strong><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>SPA L-18, Board Member</span></strong><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>(865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c</span></strong></span></i></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><img border=0 width=1 height=1 id="ecxHorizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D10371.75C900B0" alt="cid:image001.png@01D10371.75C900B0"></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>During charging, a LiPo battery becomes:</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>A)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Warmer</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>B)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Colder</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><strong><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;background:#FFFF99'>C) None of the above</span></strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><strong><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black;background:#FFFF99'>D) All of the above</span></strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>--Keith Hoard</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>--<a href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com">klhoard@outlook.com</a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span><span 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NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>