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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Have you heard of a </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Peltier device?</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC";color:#1F497D'>Jay Marshall<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Hansen via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'James Hiller'; 'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I would say anytime you pass current (electricity) through anything it will get warmer. In the case of your toaster oven, the wiring leading to your toaster gets hotter when the toaster turns on and returns to ambient when it turns off. Same for a battery, you are passing current through the battery so it must heat up and then returns to ambient once the charging process stops. When you run your Lipos in your plane, the batteries heat up because you again are passing current through them. They heat up more during discharge because we discharge them much quicker than we charge them. If you re-charge a lipo in 7 minutes I bet they get really hot.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Endothermic and exothermic all depends on where you draw the boundary. Something always absorbs heat and something always releases heat.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Hiller via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ed, what may be more important is, understanding the voltage increase due to temperature increase of maybe 20 - 30 degrees after charging before use on a hot summer afternoon and the potential over voltage state.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I've heard of some E-Pylon fliers warming their batteries to increase voltage to hopefully get an advantage.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Please comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jim <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:11 AM<br><b>To:</b> Keith Hoard; NSRCA List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>There are minor effects (the endothermic reaction) and there are major effects (the internal resistance of the cells). The packs get warmer when charged. I just tried it with a pair of Gens Ace 5S 5300 30C packs at a 10A charge rate each. The starting point was from a storage charge. They've been sitting in the basement shop for months. Pack one measured 65.1F and pack 2 was at 65.2F before starting the charge. Here are the readings from a brief constant current charge that I stopped at 1250 mA put into each.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>At 500 mA delivered, pack 1 was 67.9 F, pack 2 67.4 F<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>At 650 mA, 68.5 & 67.7<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>At 700 mA, 70 & 68.6<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>At 1000 mA, 71.9 & 69.9<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>At 1100 mA, 72 & 70.4<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>At 1250 mA, 72.5 & 70.9.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Maybe you could go down to some much lower charge rate at which the endothermic reaction cooling dominates, but that's not realistic. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ed<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>To: <a href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a>; <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>From: <a href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com">klhoard@outlook.com</a><br>Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day<br>Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 23:54:24 -0500<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Not silly at all. You didn’t account for the chemical reaction of the electrolyte during the charge process.<br> <br> The term the PhD’s use to describe the reaction is “endothermic”(gets colder) and has to do with that whole “energy cannot be created or destroyed, just moved around” rule.<br> <br> There are several papers on the internet written by the molecular scientists who designed LiPos.<br> <br>-Keith Hoard<br><a href="mailto:-klhoard@outlook.com">-klhoard@outlook.com</a><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><br><b>From: </b>Ed Alt<br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, October 9, 2015 21:09<br><b>To: </b>Keith Hoard<br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net;General">chuenkan@comcast.net;General</a> pattern discussion<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LiPo Fun Fact 'O The Day<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal> <span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>That wasn't a guess, it was a statement of fact. This is getting silly.<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>On Oct 9, 2015, at 9:09 PM, Keith Hoard <<a href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com">klhoard@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nope. If you had another guess?<br><br>Sent from my iPad<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>On Oct 9, 2015, at 20:09, Ed Alt <<a href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>They do warm up when charging, even at low rates. It's the physics behind Ohms law that governs some of that. It may not be very noticeable, but it is happening nonetheless.<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>On Oct 9, 2015, at 8:03 PM, Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I would say "C" below: I have never had a lipo pack get warm during charging. That's because i always charge somewhere between 1.8-2.0 C. For my electric planes I buy enough batteries so I do not have to hurry-charge in order to get back into the air. I charge the lipos in my starter & glow igniter at home in the shop when I have plenty of time. Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I do not use $150.00 battery packs, and none of my electric planes are for pattern.</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><i><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#8B8B8B'>Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary</span></i></strong><b><i><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#8B8B8B'><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member</span></strong><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>SPA L-18, Board Member</span></strong><br><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c</span></strong></span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><img border=0 width=1 height=1 id="ecxHorizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D10380.8A3659D0" alt="cid:image001.png@01D10359.D7B1EE30"></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>During charging, a LiPo battery becomes:</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>A)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Warmer</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>B)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Colder</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><strong><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;background:#FFFF99'>C) None of the above</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><strong><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;background:#FFFF99'>D) All of the above</span></strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>--Keith Hoard</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>--<a href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com">klhoard@outlook.com</a></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a 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