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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>+1</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Earl</DIV>
<DIV
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Dave Lockhart via
NSRCA-discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 09, 2015 8:21 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: 10s LiPo Charger
Recommendation</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Some
random comments to a long thread –<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>I
believe a number of commercial lipo applications specifically limit “full
charge” voltage to less than 4.2 volts, and limit “discharged” voltage to
something higher than 3.5 volts. Operating the lipo in the middle of the
voltage range increases longevity and reduces the odds of failure. I’ve
asked a number of “experts” if RC applications would be better served by
operating between 4.2 and 3.75 (typical), or 4.15 and 3.7, or 4.3 and 3.8……never
received a clear answer. Hyperion is another lipo supplier that has been
advertising 4.35 volt capability for several months now on their latest
generation of lipo cell.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>ThunderPower
might know the most about charging lipos for RC use, since they have been doing
it as long as anyone? The earliest viable packs for pattern use were
various “4p” configurations. Early lipo cells could not support high
discharge rates, so putting cells in parallel was the only option to support
high discharge rates - even then, the first pattern packs had a 6C BURST
rating. ThunderPower moved away from the “4p” configurations as soon as it
was viable to do so.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>I
don’t personally like the idea of parallel charging…simply because I want to see
the voltage of each cell….and mah to recharge each pack…which is also part of
the reason why I run the TP5s5000 packs instead of the 5s5400s (which are
actually 10 2700s in 5s2p configuration). Tracking the voltage at the end
of a flight vs the mah needed to recharge tells you quite a bit about the actual
capacity of the cells.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Several
years ago, I tried 2C charging (packs were rated for 5C charging). I have
not done it since, as I believe 2C charging reduced the lifecycles of the packs
by about 30%. I’ll also note that with smaller packs used for indoor
flying, 3C charging seems to have negligible impact on lifecycle. When
time allows, I charge my pattern packs at 3.5 amps…figuring if 1C charging is
better than 2C charging…. 0.7C charging might be better
yet.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>The
number of good chargers out there is far greater than in the past….the weak
point with all of the chargers / charging systems is the balance
connectors….they wear out, get dirty, etc, causing false readings in the
chargers.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Solid
power supplies are much cheaper than in the past. If I needed a new power
supply, I’d go for a pair of the 75 amp HP server power supplies (contact
RVP….he has them cheap with leads attached)….lots of charging power, compact,
and easy to put a pair in series for 1800 watts of power (more than a 15 amp
household circuit)…..enough to comfortably power a wide range of charging
schemes. I currently have 2 different charger boxes….one has a pair of
IOTA 55 amp supplies in series running a pair of TP820s, and the newer charger
box has a pair of HP 47 amp supplies (much lighter) in series running a pair of
TP820s. Both charger boxes have more than enough overhead (chargers and
supplies) to charge 4 5s5000s at 2C, should I need to charge rapidly.
Wiring to and from the power supplies becomes increasingly critical as the
wattage goes up….at a 1000 watts, plenty of computer monitor power leads
(intended for less than 100 watts) will get hot. Power leads intended for
the power supplies have a lot more capacity.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Dave<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'> NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Peter
Vogel via NSRCA-discussion<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 09, 2015 12:40
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Robert L. Beaubien <rob@koolsoft.com>; NSRCA List
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] FW: 10s LiPo Charger
Recommendation<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>If you go to 4.35v/cell your 10s pack voltage is in excess of
that allowed by the rules by 1.5v<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">Peter+<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Sent from <A
href="http://aka.ms/Ox5hz3">Outlook</A><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 8:46 PM
-0700, "Robert L. Beaubien via NSRCA-discussion" <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Ed,
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>I
have talked with a number of battery manufacturers and while their batteries
support as high as 9c charge rates, every one recommend NOT charging any
higher than 2c charging rates. Anything higher, while tolerated by the
battery, would definitely shorten the life of the battery. The best
benefit of parallel charging is not using a high C charge rate, but that you
are charging multiple batteries at the same time. It reduces the need to
have to charge fast (at least for me).</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Also,
I’m looking forward to the coming HV Lipo packs where you charge the cells to
4.35v/cell instead of 4.2v/cell. Turnigy ( <A
href="http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__1415__85__Batteries_Accessories-Turnigy_BOLT_LiHV_.html">http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__1415__85__Batteries_Accessories-Turnigy_BOLT_LiHV_.html</A>
) has them already and GiantPower is close to releasing their packs with these
cells. They should give a nice boost in performance for a similar weight
battery.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><SPAN
style="mso-list: ignore">-<SPAN
style='FONT: 7pt "Times New Roman"'>
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f4e79'>Robert
Beaubien</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><SPAN
style="mso-list: ignore">-<SPAN
style='FONT: 7pt "Times New Roman"'>
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f4e79'>Sr.
Software Architect</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><SPAN
style="mso-list: ignore">-<SPAN
style='FONT: 7pt "Times New Roman"'>
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f4e79'>Kool
Software LLC</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.25in"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>“Dear
Algebra, Please stop asking us to find your X. She's never coming back
and don't ask Y.”</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'> Ed Alt [<A
href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com</A>]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 8, 2015 6:10 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Robert L.
Beaubien <<A href="mailto:rob@koolsoft.com">rob@koolsoft.com</A>>; NSRCA
List <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR><B>Subject:</B>
RE: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: 10s LiPo Charger
Recommendation</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Thanks for the response Robert. I can definitely see
doing this at low to moderate C rates as with your example. I might run
a test to see what the voltage difference is between parallel battery sets at
higher C rates, maybe around 4 to 5C. The thing that I have in mind
is, that depending on how things are connected, what the resulting
resistance is in the path to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th parallel pack and so forth, and
what the charging current is, then you might see a problem with some packs
charging more than others. If you keep the the wiring lengths the same
from the charger to each pack, then there should not be an issue. An
example might be something resembling a bicycle wheel, with the charger at the
hub of the wheel, and battery packs distributed around the hub with one pack
per "spoke".<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>However, if you instead choose to wire it to resemble a
train track, with a relatively simple charger at one end of the track and
battery packs strung out like railroad ties along the rails, then a issue may
exist at some point. The reason is that the higher the charging current
value is, the more voltage drop there will be along the wiring from one pack
to the next, skewing the results from one pack to the next. Now
depending on how the charger algorithm is designed, that may not matter.
For example, an improved charger design could pulse the charging current on
and off, and during each brief "off" time, take no load voltage readings that
would be virtually unaffected by the extra resistance in the wiring to the 2nd
pack. More sophisticated methods could be applied that you might expect
could vary from one brand or model charger to the next, but this should
illustrate the point that results may vary depending on a number of
factors. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Careful monitoring and not pushing C rates really high as
you have done will certainly tell you enough. If someone wants to really
push the limits without incurring too much risk, my suggestion is that they
determine the wiring method based on an understanding of how the charging
system will be able to measure what is happening. If your charging
system can monitor individual parallel pack voltages and suss out how those
separate readings relate to the state of the group of batteries, you get
easily push C rates higher without much regard to the wiring scheme (hub and
spoke vs RR track, if you will). If your charging system lacks
independent battery voltage sensors, but is known to have an algorithm that
can work around that, also good. Personally, I wouldn't go against any
manufacturer's specific recommendation to avoid parallel charging with their
product. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Ed<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">To: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Date:
Thu, 8 Oct 2015 20:39:19 +0000<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: 10s LiPo
Charger Recommendation<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>.<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>I
have done a lot of parallel charging this year. I was originally worried about
cell balance charging this way when I started so I closely monitored the cell
voltages before and after charging. I’m typically charging 1800 75c 4s
packs, 4 at a time at 14amps (2c per pack). Every check of the cells
after charging shows they balance very well and are within .02 volts each and
I have about 100 cycles on each pack this way. I use the RMRC ParaBoard
( <A
href="http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=84_387&products_id=2984"
target=_blank>http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=84_387&products_id=2984</A>
). Certainly not the 10s packs used in pattern, but charging them as 5s
packs would work nicely using this system.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f4e79'>-</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f4e79">
</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f4e79'>Robert
Beaubien</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f4e79'>-</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f4e79">
</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f4e79'>Sr.
Software Architect</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f4e79'>-</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f4e79">
</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f4e79'>Kool
Software LLC</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>“Dear
Algebra, Please stop asking us to find your X. She's never coming back
and don't ask Y.”</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=ecxmsonormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'> NSRCA-discussion
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday,
October 8, 2015 12:54 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Keith Hoard <<A
href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com">klhoard@outlook.com</A>>; General pattern
discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: 10s LiPo Charger
Recommendation</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal>Although I haven't done parallel charging, it seems like
it would be ok within certain limits. The main limiting factor might be
the path resistance between parallel cells, but really only in the case of
high C rate charging. That's a theory anyway. What has your
experience been at high C rates? Does it seem to make much
difference?<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal>Ed<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><BR>On Oct 8, 2015, at 3:09 PM, Keith Hoard via
NSRCA-discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>I
have found that the loudest detractors of parallel charging have no
experience parallel charging. When I ask them to point to an
incident where parallel charging caused a problem, the answer is always
“Well, I read on the internet . . . “</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>I
do a lot of parallel charging, and have no problem “putting the spurs” to my
packs during charge if I’m ready to get in the air. To dispel one myth
right now, a good quality charger **WILL** detect a bad cell during parallel
charging. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>(steps
up on soapbox) . . . </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Berlin Sans FB",sans-serif; COLOR: red'>**I
HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES AND CONFIRMED IT WITH FURTHER
TESTS**</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Berlin Sans FB",sans-serif; COLOR: red'>**PLEASE
DON’T KEEP REFERRING ME BACK TO “THE INTERNET”**</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Berlin Sans FB",sans-serif; COLOR: red'>**IF
YOU GIVE ME ONE OF YOUR CRAPPY PUFFED UP PACKS, I’LL PUT IT ON WITH ONE OF
MY GOOD PACKS AND SHOW YOU**</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>OK,
with that statement out of the way . . . . (steps down off soapbox) . . . .
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>The
only time that bad cell **MAY** be masked is if you are parallel charging 4
or 6 packs. In practical use, you would only be parallel charging that
many batteries on very rare occasions, perhaps once per season.
Besides, most chargers out there don’t have enough ass to charge 6 pattern
packs in parallel and be done before sundown anyway. However, you
should not be relying on your charger as the only point in your routine to
detect bad cells.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>In
my experience, folks with bad cells and puffy packs are doing a myriad
of other no-no’s. The worst is taking their batteries home on a full
charge and letting them sit all week or all winter. My soapbox finally
broke down on that one and now I just smile and say “That’s too bad” and
keep walking down the flight line. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Ironically,
the “straw that broke the camel’s back” for me was an H1B German Engineer
who flies at our field asked me how I keep my packs from puffing up. Every
time I said “storage charge at the end of the day”, he would reply “I don’t
do that.” Then I said, “Yes, that’s why your batteries are all puffy and
trashed.” To which he replied “Yes, I charge my batteries to 100%
before taking them home.” . . . <Sigh> . .
.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>I
now understand how VW got busted.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'> NSRCA-discussion
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, October 8, 2015 13:16<BR><B>To:</B> James Hiller <<A
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</A>>; General
pattern discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 10s LiPo Charger Recommendation</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecxmsonormal>For some reason TP does not recommend parallel
charging. Probably because it is difficult to keep track of each cell
and values are averaged. Is this really an important
factor? At this point I just following instructions. This factor
could be important to decide what charger to buy.<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR><BR>On Thursday, October 8,
2015, James Hiller via NSRCA-discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=ecxmsonormal>Plug & play charge box from Progressive RC (see
photo).<BR>Parallel charging 5 flight packs in one session while having a
couple cold ones!<BR>Jim<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
NSRCA-discussion [<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Dr. Michael Harrison, DDS via NSRCA-discussion<BR>Sent:
Thursday, October 08, 2015 9:46 AM<BR>To: 'Earl Haury'; 'General pattern
discussion'<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 10s LiPo Charger
Recommendation<BR><BR>lol<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
NSRCA-discussion [<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Earl Haury via NSRCA-discussion<BR>Sent: Thursday, October
08, 2015 8:26 AM<BR>To: Budd Engineering; General pattern
discussion<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 10s LiPo Charger
Recommendation<BR><BR>Jerry<BR><BR>Hard to beat the iChargers. The
CellPros taught me that a fuse between the pack & charger is a good
investment! No issues with 3010b iChargers (about<BR>3000 charges
over 5 years or so). They will report cell IR / voltage and charge a
10S pack at 2C with a 24v supply without breaking a sweat. The newer 4010
can handle 2x10S and displays data from both packs simultaneously. They
don't meet your criteria of charging through the balance leads, but
haven't really found that to an issue as the balancing system works fine.
Can't really comment on service, haven't needed any (that should jinx
me).<BR><BR>Earl<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Budd
Engineering via NSRCA-discussion<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 4:59
AM<BR>To: List NSRCA-list<BR>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 10s LiPo Charger
Recommendation<BR><BR>Hi all, I m in need of some advice/suggestions for a
new LiPo charger for 10s packs.<BR><BR>For the past several years I ve
used CellPro-10S chargers with good results.<BR>However recently one of my
CellPro-10s' emitted the dreaded magic smoke when I connected
a 10s pack for charging. This also happened at the Nats 3 years ago,
fortunately Mike M. from F3AU was there with inventory and I was able to
purchase a replacement charger and press on. However, after having a
second one give up the ghost a few weeks ago (and after not many charge
cycles - I don t fly very much), I m interested in exploring other
options.<BR><BR><BR>To try to add some focus to this here s my search
constraints:<BR><BR>1. It must be able to charge each cell
individually through the balance connector, and give me a relative readout
of each cell s condition compared to the other 9 cells.<BR><BR>2. I
m not interested in chargers that have separate balancers from the charger
(e.g. like the TP1010C).<BR><BR>3. Reliability and value are
important, as is ease of use.<BR><BR>4. Cost no more than a
replacement CellPro 10XP (<$180), unless a single charger can charge
two 10s packs simultaneously, then I d consider spending a bit
more.<BR><BR>5. Customer service matters, if I can buy it through
F3A Unlimited, that would be a PLUS.<BR><BR><BR>With this in mind does
anyone have a suggestion for what chargers I
should<BR>consider?<BR><BR><BR>I don t get out much these days so it s
difficult to see what everyone s<BR>using that works well. So I
really do appreciate everyone s help with this.<BR><BR>Thx,
Jerry<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P class=ecxmsonormal><BR><BR>-- <BR>Vicente "Vince"
Bortone<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P
class=ecxmsonormal>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
<A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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