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The article mentioned by Robert agrees with this but depth of
discharge also shortens battery life. So for most of us that use
more than 45% of a pack during a flight will you get longer pack
life charging to 100% and discharging to 30% or charging to 95% and
discharging to 25%?<br>
Stuart<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/9/2015 12:38 PM, James Hiller via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";color:#1F497D">Using only about 45% of
capacity it didn't make sense to charge to 4.2 so I set the
charge cutoff to 4.15 last year which charges to about 95%.
I have no proof but the batteries seam happier with the
lower charge voltage.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman""> NSRCA-discussion
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Dave Lockhart via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 09, 2015 6:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: 10s LiPo
Charger Recommendation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Some
random comments to a long thread –<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
believe a number of commercial lipo applications
specifically limit “full charge” voltage to less than 4.2
volts, and limit “discharged” voltage to something higher
than 3.5 volts. Operating the lipo in the middle of the
voltage range increases longevity and reduces the odds of
failure. I’ve asked a number of “experts” if RC
applications would be better served by operating between 4.2
and 3.75 (typical), or 4.15 and 3.7, or 4.3 and 3.8……never
received a clear answer. Hyperion is another lipo supplier
that has been advertising 4.35 volt capability for several
months now on their latest generation of lipo cell.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ThunderPower
might know the most about charging lipos for RC use, since
they have been doing it as long as anyone? The earliest
viable packs for pattern use were various “4p”
configurations. Early lipo cells could not support high
discharge rates, so putting cells in parallel was the only
option to support high discharge rates - even then, the
first pattern packs had a 6C BURST rating. ThunderPower
moved away from the “4p” configurations as soon as it was
viable to do so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
don’t personally like the idea of parallel charging…simply
because I want to see the voltage of each cell….and mah to
recharge each pack…which is also part of the reason why I
run the TP5s5000 packs instead of the 5s5400s (which are
actually 10 2700s in 5s2p configuration). Tracking the
voltage at the end of a flight vs the mah needed to recharge
tells you quite a bit about the actual capacity of the
cells.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Several
years ago, I tried 2C charging (packs were rated for 5C
charging). I have not done it since, as I believe 2C
charging reduced the lifecycles of the packs by about
30%. I’ll also note that with smaller packs used for
indoor flying, 3C charging seems to have negligible
impact on lifecycle. When time allows, I charge my
pattern packs at 3.5 amps…figuring if 1C charging is
better than 2C charging…. 0.7C charging might be
better yet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
number of good chargers out there is far greater than in
the past….the weak point with all of the chargers /
charging systems is the balance connectors….they wear
out, get dirty, etc, causing false readings in the
chargers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Solid
power supplies are much cheaper than in the past. If I
needed a new power supply, I’d go for a pair of the 75
amp HP server power supplies (contact RVP….he has them
cheap with leads attached)….lots of charging power,
compact, and easy to put a pair in series for 1800 watts
of power (more than a 15 amp household circuit)…..enough
to comfortably power a wide range of charging schemes.
I currently have 2 different charger boxes….one has a
pair of IOTA 55 amp supplies in series running a pair of
TP820s, and the newer charger box has a pair of HP 47
amp supplies (much lighter) in series running a pair of
TP820s. Both charger boxes have more than enough
overhead (chargers and supplies) to charge 4 5s5000s at
2C, should I need to charge rapidly. Wiring to and from
the power supplies becomes increasingly critical as the
wattage goes up….at a 1000 watts, plenty of computer
monitor power leads (intended for less than 100 watts)
will get hot. Power leads intended for the power
supplies have a lot more capacity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
NSRCA-discussion [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 09, 2015 12:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robert L. Beaubien <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rob@koolsoft.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rob@koolsoft.com">rob@koolsoft.com</a></a>>;
NSRCA List <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: 10s LiPo
Charger Recommendation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you go to 4.35v/cell your 10s pack
voltage is in excess of that allowed by the rules by 1.5v<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Peter+<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://aka.ms/Ox5hz3">Outlook</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Thu, Oct
8, 2015 at 8:46 PM -0700, "Robert L. Beaubien via
NSRCA-discussion" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ed,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
have talked with a number of battery manufacturers and
while their batteries support as high as 9c charge
rates, every one recommend NOT charging any higher
than 2c charging rates. Anything higher, while
tolerated by the battery, would definitely shorten the
life of the battery. The best benefit of parallel
charging is not using a high C charge rate, but that
you are charging multiple batteries at the same time.
It reduces the need to have to charge fast (at least
for me).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Also,
I’m looking forward to the coming HV Lipo packs where
you charge the cells to 4.35v/cell instead of
4.2v/cell. Turnigy ( <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__1415__85__Batteries_Accessories-Turnigy_BOLT_LiHV_.html">http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__1415__85__Batteries_Accessories-Turnigy_BOLT_LiHV_.html</a>
) has them already and GiantPower is close to
releasing their packs with these cells. They should
give a nice boost in performance for a similar weight
battery.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79"> Robert
Beaubien</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79"> Sr.
Software Architect</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79"> Kool
Software LLC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“Dear
Algebra, Please stop asking us to find your X.
She's never coming back and don't ask Y.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
Ed Alt [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 8, 2015 6:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robert L. Beaubien <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rob@koolsoft.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rob@koolsoft.com">rob@koolsoft.com</a></a>>;
NSRCA List <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: 10s
LiPo Charger Recommendation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the response Robert.
I can definitely see doing this at low to moderate
C rates as with your example. I might run a test to
see what the voltage difference is between parallel
battery sets at higher C rates, maybe around 4 to
5C. The thing that I have in mind is, that
depending on how things are connected, what the
resulting resistance is in the path to the 2nd, 3rd,
4th parallel pack and so forth, and what the
charging current is, then you might see a problem
with some packs charging more than others. If you
keep the the wiring lengths the same from the
charger to each pack, then there should not be an
issue. An example might be something resembling a
bicycle wheel, with the charger at the hub of the
wheel, and battery packs distributed around the hub
with one pack per "spoke".<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, if you instead choose to
wire it to resemble a train track, with a relatively
simple charger at one end of the track and battery
packs strung out like railroad ties along the rails,
then a issue may exist at some point. The reason is
that the higher the charging current value is, the
more voltage drop there will be along the wiring
from one pack to the next, skewing the results from
one pack to the next. Now depending on how the
charger algorithm is designed, that may not matter.
For example, an improved charger design could pulse
the charging current on and off, and during each
brief "off" time, take no load voltage readings that
would be virtually unaffected by the extra
resistance in the wiring to the 2nd pack. More
sophisticated methods could be applied that you
might expect could vary from one brand or model
charger to the next, but this should illustrate the
point that results may vary depending on a number of
factors. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Careful monitoring and not
pushing C rates really high as you have done will
certainly tell you enough. If someone wants to
really push the limits without incurring too much
risk, my suggestion is that they determine the
wiring method based on an understanding of how the
charging system will be able to measure what is
happening. If your charging system can monitor
individual parallel pack voltages and suss out how
those separate readings relate to the state of the
group of batteries, you get easily push C rates
higher without much regard to the wiring scheme (hub
and spoke vs RR track, if you will). If your
charging system lacks independent battery voltage
sensors, but is known to have an algorithm that can
work around that, also good. Personally, I wouldn't
go against any manufacturer's specific
recommendation to avoid parallel charging with their
product. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ed<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">To:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 20:39:19 +0000<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: 10s LiPo
Charger Recommendation<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
have done a lot of parallel charging this
year. I was originally worried about cell
balance charging this way when I started so
I closely monitored the cell voltages before
and after charging. I’m typically charging
1800 75c 4s packs, 4 at a time at 14amps (2c
per pack). Every check of the cells after
charging shows they balance very well and
are within .02 volts each and I have about
100 cycles on each pack this way. I use the
RMRC ParaBoard ( <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=84_387&products_id=2984"
target="_blank">http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=84_387&products_id=2984</a>
). Certainly not the 10s packs used in
pattern, but charging them as 5s packs would
work nicely using this system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79">-</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F4E79">
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79"> Robert
Beaubien</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79">-</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F4E79">
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79"> Sr.
Software Architect</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79">-</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F4E79">
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79"> Kool
Software LLC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">“Dear
Algebra, Please stop asking us to find
your X. She's never coming back and don't
ask Y.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="ecxmsonormal"
style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
NSRCA-discussion [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ed Alt via
NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 8, 2015
12:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Keith Hoard <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:klhoard@outlook.com">klhoard@outlook.com</a></a>>;
General pattern discussion <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
FW: 10s LiPo Charger Recommendation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal">Although I haven't
done parallel charging, it seems like it
would be ok within certain limits. The main
limiting factor might be the path resistance
between parallel cells, but really only in
the case of high C rate charging. That's a
theory anyway. What has your experience
been at high C rates? Does it seem to make
much difference?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal">Ed<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><br>
On Oct 8, 2015, at 3:09 PM, Keith Hoard via
NSRCA-discussion <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
have found that the loudest detractors
of parallel charging have no experience
parallel charging. When I ask them to
point to an incident where parallel
charging caused a problem, the answer is
always “Well, I read on the internet . .
. “</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
do a lot of parallel charging, and have
no problem “putting the spurs” to my
packs during charge if I’m ready to get
in the air. To dispel one myth right
now, a good quality charger **WILL**
detect a bad cell during parallel
charging. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(steps
up on soapbox) . . . </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Berlin
Sans
FB","sans-serif";color:red">**I
HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES
AND CONFIRMED IT WITH FURTHER TESTS**</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Berlin
Sans
FB","sans-serif";color:red">**PLEASE
DON’T KEEP REFERRING ME BACK TO “THE
INTERNET”**</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Berlin
Sans
FB","sans-serif";color:red">**IF
YOU GIVE ME ONE OF YOUR CRAPPY PUFFED UP
PACKS, I’LL PUT IT ON WITH ONE OF MY
GOOD PACKS AND SHOW YOU**</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">OK,
with that statement out of the way . . .
. (steps down off soapbox) . . . . </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
only time that bad cell **MAY** be
masked is if you are parallel charging 4
or 6 packs. In practical use, you would
only be parallel charging that many
batteries on very rare occasions,
perhaps once per season. Besides, most
chargers out there don’t have enough ass
to charge 6 pattern packs in parallel
and be done before sundown anyway.
However, you should not be relying on
your charger as the only point in your
routine to detect bad cells.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In
my experience, folks with bad cells and
puffy packs are doing a myriad of other
no-no’s. The worst is taking their
batteries home on a full charge and
letting them sit all week or all
winter. My soapbox finally broke down
on that one and now I just smile and say
“That’s too bad” and keep walking down
the flight line. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ironically,
the “straw that broke the camel’s back”
for me was an H1B German Engineer who
flies at our field asked me how I keep
my packs from puffing up. Every time I
said “storage charge at the end of the
day”, he would reply “I don’t do that.”
Then I said, “Yes, that’s why your
batteries are all puffy and trashed.”
To which he replied “Yes, I charge my
batteries to 100% before taking them
home.” . . . <Sigh> . . .</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
now understand how VW got busted.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"
style="mso-outline-level:1"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
NSRCA-discussion [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Vicente Bortone via
NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 8, 2015
13:16<br>
<b>To:</b> James Hiller <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a></a>>;
General pattern discussion <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
10s LiPo Charger Recommendation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ecxmsonormal">For some reason TP
does not recommend parallel charging.
Probably because it is difficult to keep
track of each cell and values are
averaged. Is this really an important
factor? At this point I just following
instructions. This factor could
be important to decide what charger to
buy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal">Vicente "Vince"
Bortone<br>
<br>
On Thursday, October 8, 2015, James
Hiller via NSRCA-discussion <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="ecxmsonormal"
style="mso-outline-level:1">Plug &
play charge box from Progressive RC
(see photo).<br>
Parallel charging 5 flight packs in
one session while having a couple cold
ones!<br>
Jim<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: NSRCA-discussion [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a></a>]
On Behalf Of Dr. Michael Harrison, DDS
via NSRCA-discussion<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 9:46
AM<br>
To: 'Earl Haury'; 'General pattern
discussion'<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 10s
LiPo Charger Recommendation<br>
<br>
lol<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: NSRCA-discussion [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a></a>]
On Behalf Of Earl Haury via
NSRCA-discussion<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 8:26
AM<br>
To: Budd Engineering; General pattern
discussion<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 10s
LiPo Charger Recommendation<br>
<br>
Jerry<br>
<br>
Hard to beat the iChargers. The
CellPros taught me that a fuse between
the pack & charger is a good
investment! No issues with 3010b
iChargers (about<br>
3000 charges over 5 years or so).
They will report cell IR / voltage
and charge a 10S pack at 2C with a 24v
supply without breaking a sweat. The
newer 4010 can handle 2x10S and
displays data from both packs
simultaneously. They don't meet your
criteria of charging through the
balance leads, but haven't really
found that to an issue as the
balancing system works fine. Can't
really comment on service, haven't
needed any (that should jinx me).<br>
<br>
Earl<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Budd Engineering via
NSRCA-discussion<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 4:59
AM<br>
To: List NSRCA-list<br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 10s LiPo
Charger Recommendation<br>
<br>
Hi all, I m in need of some
advice/suggestions for a new LiPo
charger for 10s packs.<br>
<br>
For the past several years I ve used
CellPro-10S chargers with good
results.<br>
However recently one of my
CellPro-10s' emitted the dreaded
magic smoke when I connected a 10s
pack for charging. This also happened
at the Nats 3 years ago, fortunately
Mike M. from F3AU was there with
inventory and I was able to purchase a
replacement charger and press on.
However, after having a second one
give up the ghost a few weeks ago (and
after not many charge cycles - I don t
fly very much), I m interested in
exploring other options.<br>
<br>
<br>
To try to add some focus to this here
s my search constraints:<br>
<br>
1. It must be able to charge each
cell individually through the balance
connector, and give me a relative
readout of each cell s condition
compared to the other 9 cells.<br>
<br>
2. I m not interested in chargers
that have separate balancers from the
charger (e.g. like the TP1010C).<br>
<br>
3. Reliability and value are
important, as is ease of use.<br>
<br>
4. Cost no more than a replacement
CellPro 10XP (<$180), unless a
single charger can charge two 10s
packs simultaneously, then I d
consider spending a bit more.<br>
<br>
5. Customer service matters, if I can
buy it through F3A Unlimited, that
would be a PLUS.<br>
<br>
<br>
With this in mind does anyone have a
suggestion for what chargers I should<br>
consider?<br>
<br>
<br>
I don t get out much these days so it
s difficult to see what everyone s<br>
using that works well. So I really do
appreciate everyone s help with this.<br>
<br>
Thx, Jerry<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="ecxmsonormal"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
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<p class="ecxmsonormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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