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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ed- it’s not from “insufficient caffeine”, it’s from ADS:
Alcohol Deficiency Syndrome. Easily cured BTW… </span><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>John Pavlick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cell: 203-417-4971<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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src="cid:image001.png@01D0DDA3.2C5C2B30" alt=idslogo2><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Integrated Development Services</span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ed Alt
via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 23, 2015 9:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Oops.
In my first post, where I said "(when roll angle = 180 deg).
It's really when it's 270 deg. I'm so confused, must be due to
insufficient caffeine.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>..</span><span
style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>To:
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:33:16 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll<br>
From: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Phil:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I couldn't
really tell either, so I just tried to fly it with a stick plane. Take
the example that starts with the 45 up line. I can't see how you would
avoid departing upwards from the 45 deg line and simultaneously get the
corkscrew shape started unless the maneuver was initiated with simultaneous
aileron, rudder and elevator. I think the rudder has to be enough to
immediately skid the model and start bringing the nose down as positive pitch
input helps get the corkscrew angle set. I guess I'll try just for fun
later today.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Date:
Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:15:14 +0000<br>
From: chuenkan@comcast.net<br>
To: ed_alt@hotmail.com; nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>If
FAI/NSCRA have come up with a new definition of a barrel roll, then I can't be
of any help. However, to do a "regular" old barrel roll, just
do what my aerobatics student does: He is trying to learn to do 3
Horizontal Rolls (the "3 horribles). He can do one axial roll
beautifully; he can often get 2 pretty good ones; but 3??? He gets the
elevator miss-timed and does a very good barrel roll. So, the idea of
adding elevator (plus maybe some rudder) should produce a barrel roll -- but I
don't know if it would fit the NSRCA definition if said roll. From the
posts, I can't tell what is required. Ah, yes, I love teaching -- that's
why I gave up college tenure and went to do laboratory research. lol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><strong><i><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#8B8B8B'>Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary</span></i></strong><b><i><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#8B8B8B'><br>
<strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>AMA 1294, Scientific
Leader Member</span></strong><br>
<strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>SPA L-18, Board Member</span></strong><br>
<strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(865) 435-1476v
(865) 604-0541c</span></strong></span></i></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>"Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b>To: </b>"NSRCA List" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Sunday, August 23, 2015 8:35:05 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>I'm not sure , but after 100 years or so, it seems that the
barrel roll may have a new definition. This appears to require that the
model skid around the entire rotation, which is not really how a barrel roll is
typically done as far as I know. I believe that you would normally do one
mainly with simultaneous pitch and roll inputs, and maybe touches of rudder to
keep that coordinated, in much the same way as a coordinated turn
would be done in a full scale aircraft to keep the turn & bank indicator's
ball centered. As a result, it would present itself as if the aircraft were
traveling along the inside of a cylinder with both of it's main gear wheels
always in contact with its inner surface, hence the name barrel roll.
Executed this way, you could do that Bob Hoover demonstration of keeping
a glass of some liquid perfectly still, resting on top of the instrument panel.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>This definition seems to be more of a variation on an integrated
roll, and as a result you would expect to see the tail pointed at perhaps a
45 deg yaw angle at one point (when roll angle = 90 deg), and the nose yawed at
you 45 deg at another (when roll angle = 180 deg). And I think that as a
result it would also mean that the wing tip in the direction of the roll would
always be in contact with the inner surface of the imaginary cylinder, instead
of both wheels. Am I visualizing that correctly? It seems like
it would be tricky to judge accurately.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Ed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 23:10:49 -0700<br>
To: underdw@gmail.com; nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll<br>
From: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Hopefully this helps…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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color:black'><img width=995 height=104 id="_x0000_i1029"
src="cid:image002.png@01D0DDA3.2C5C2B30"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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color:black'><img width=1148 height=860 id="_x0000_i1030"
src="cid:image003.png@01D0DDA3.2C5C2B30"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><img width=1147 height=861 id="_x0000_i1031"
src="cid:image004.png@01D0DDA3.2C5C2B30"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>NSRCA-discussion on behalf of NSRCA List<br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>Daniel Underkofler, NSRCA List<br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 6:21 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>NSRCA List<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>In F17 there is a cryptic aresti symbol that is described in the
figure description as a barrel roll. Will somebody please describe this
in more detail and what control inputs will obtain the required result?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Thanks, Dan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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