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<div>I see a t shirt with ADS on it.</div>
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<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757">Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone</div>
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-------- Original message --------<br>
From: John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> <br>
Date: 08/23/2015 12:57 PM (GMT-05:00) <br>
To: 'Ed Alt' <ed_alt@hotmail.com>, 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>
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Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll <br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Ed- it’s not from “insufficient caffeine”, it’s from ADS: Alcohol Deficiency Syndrome. Easily cured BTW…
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Wingdings; color:#1F497D">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">John Pavlick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Cell: 203-417-4971</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><img id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D0DDA3.2C5C2B30" alt="idslogo2" height="39" width="90"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Impact","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Integrated Development Services</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 23, 2015 9:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Oops. In my first post, where I said "(when roll angle = 180 deg). It's really when it's 270 deg. I'm so confused, must be due to insufficient caffeine.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">..</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:33:16 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll<br>
From: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Phil:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I couldn't really tell either, so I just tried to fly it with a stick plane. Take the example that starts with the 45 up line. I can't see how you would avoid departing upwards from the
45 deg line and simultaneously get the corkscrew shape started unless the maneuver was initiated with simultaneous aileron, rudder and elevator. I think the rudder has to be enough to immediately skid the model and start bringing the nose down as positive
pitch input helps get the corkscrew angle set. I guess I'll try just for fun later today.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Ed</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:15:14 +0000<br>
From: chuenkan@comcast.net<br>
To: ed_alt@hotmail.com; nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black">If FAI/NSCRA have come up with a new definition of a barrel roll, then I can't be of any help. However, to do a "regular" old barrel roll, just do what my aerobatics student does:
He is trying to learn to do 3 Horizontal Rolls (the "3 horribles). He can do one axial roll beautifully; he can often get 2 pretty good ones; but 3??? He gets the elevator miss-timed and does a very good barrel roll. So, the idea of adding elevator (plus
maybe some rudder) should produce a barrel roll -- but I don't know if it would fit the NSRCA definition if said roll. From the posts, I can't tell what is required. Ah, yes, I love teaching -- that's why I gave up college tenure and went to do laboratory
research. lol</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#8B8B8B">Phil Spelt, KCRC Emeritus, Secretary</span></i></strong><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#8B8B8B"><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member</span></strong><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">SPA L-18, Board Member</span></strong><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">(865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c</span></strong></span></i></b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black">"Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b>To: </b>"NSRCA List" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Sunday, August 23, 2015 8:35:05 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black">I'm not sure , but after 100 years or so, it seems that the barrel roll may have a new definition. This appears to require that the model skid around the entire rotation,
which is not really how a barrel roll is typically done as far as I know. I believe that you would normally do one mainly with simultaneous pitch and roll inputs, and maybe touches of rudder to keep that coordinated, in much the same way as a coordinated
turn would be done in a full scale aircraft to keep the turn & bank indicator's ball centered. As a result, it would present itself as if the aircraft were traveling along the inside of a cylinder with both of it's main gear wheels always in contact with its
inner surface, hence the name barrel roll. Executed this way, you could do that Bob Hoover demonstration of keeping a glass of some liquid perfectly still, resting on top of the instrument panel.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black">This definition seems to be more of a variation on an integrated roll, and as a result you would expect to see the tail pointed at perhaps a 45 deg yaw angle at one point (when
roll angle = 90 deg), and the nose yawed at you 45 deg at another (when roll angle = 180 deg). And I think that as a result it would also mean that the wing tip in the direction of the roll would always be in contact with the inner surface of the imaginary
cylinder, instead of both wheels. Am I visualizing that correctly? It seems like it would be tricky to judge accurately.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black">Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 23:10:49 -0700<br>
To: underdw@gmail.com; nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll<br>
From: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black">Hopefully this helps…</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:black">NSRCA-discussion on behalf of NSRCA List<br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>Daniel Underkofler, NSRCA List<br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 6:21 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>NSRCA List<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[NSRCA-discussion] F17 barrel roll</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black">In F17 there is a cryptic aresti symbol that is described in the figure description as a barrel roll. Will somebody please describe this in more detail and what control inputs
will obtain the required result?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black">Thanks, Dan</span></p>
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