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Ground based GPS augmentation systems exist and have been tested.
However, I haven't heard about anything in our price range.
Typically in an airport environment, the ground based transmitter is
broadcasting corrections to the satellite signals rather than an
imitation satellite signal.<br>
Standard micro GPS probably wouldn't know what to do with this
signal. Also the ground-based xmitter is not sized/priced for us. <br>
However , it may not be necessary to go that route. If we could
improve on the 3 meter accuracy a bit and the 10hz update rate and
expand the storage capacity....<br>
<br>
But rather than auto-judging, setting up a display showing the plan
view and vertical view graphically, perhaps with color shading to
indicate deviation from roll angle = 0 in realtime would be an
incredible advance in practice/coaching. Think about it.<br>
In a square on corner, you would see directly the effect of the top
corner roll attitude being off 5 degrees and where that took the
third leg. <br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/9/2015 7:07 AM, Daniel Underkofler
via NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+47XXcKSWMBexFuxz5hbk0jPO7yi0kVJYHnECJUR6oEO4+J4w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">It's great to see technology like this approaching
for at least partial automated judging.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Seems that resolving the altitude component adequately is
the largest challenge. To address this, I had envisioned a
local set of 3 "beacons", each emitting GPS-like signals
that are received and processed by a transponder in the
model. Yeah - expensive and even more out in the future.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the short term, using high resolution and update GPS
to resolve XY location might be useful for partial judging.
Human judges would still be responsible for the majority of
the scoring, but a "correction factor" for XY errors might
be factored in. For instance, it is terribly hard to judge
the geometry of the horizontal triangle in F15, but given
good XY data, a portion of the score could be addressed.
Distance and parallelism to the runway could also be
determined and factored in (somehow).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dan</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:33 PM, John
Gayer via NSRCA-discussion <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#3333FF"> The judges are
expected to consider the track of the plane in an earth
coordinate system. For example the judges are supposed to
consider that a 45 degree climb appears steeper at the end
of the box than it does in the center. So the track should
be analyzed by the judges in an earth coordinate system
and the track of the model rather than attitude. <br>
<br>
The location of the pilot is actually irrelevant but the
location of the box is clearly of critical importance.
Knowing the actual location of the plane with a fairly
quick update rate is critical. At 120 feet/sec(approx 80
mph), horizontal position is no problem. At this speed you
need an update rate of about 80 milliseconds to get a data
point about every 10 feet. Not sure how good the GPS
update rates are these days but this should be achievable.
IF the altitude update rate is too slow then augment with
an altimeter. Since we are downloading this data from the
model, roll attitude could be transmitted as well for
wings level.<br>
<br>
We would still need a zero judge for snaps, spins and
stall turns and to establish when the pilot is lost in a
maneuver. It might be necessary to have an "advance to the
next maneuver" switch for that case.<br>
<br>
It would actually be a fascinating project to download
accelerations, roll, yaw and pitch rates for analysis
while observing snaps visually to see if standards could
be established about what is a snap and what isn't.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<div>On 5/8/2015 1:24 PM, Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Not by itself. Judging/Scoring is from
the perspective of the pilot + judges, not from the
perspective of the plane. (As opposed to IAC, where
it's from the perspective of the pilot in the plane).
For it to be done right you'd need to know the precise
location of the plane and the precise location of the
pilot, then calculate the geometry of the plane's
movements relative to the perspective of the pilot's
location.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The SoloShot 2 automatic cameraman does close to
what we want in tracking the movement of the plane
relative to a ground station, but from that you'd
still need to calculate geometries, and wings level,
etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Peter+</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:44
AM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">Cheap, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://goo.gl/mZg6RG"
target="_blank">Centimeter accuracy GPS</a>.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">No more
complaints about biased judging?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">-Keith Hoard</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:klhoard@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">klhoard@hotmail.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
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