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Yeah Keith, I read that.<br>
<br>
What is missing from the article is the number of satellites
required to achieve that accuracy and what percentage of the time
that minimum configuration exists. Some of the problems they have
would be diminished in our openair environment(multipath, for
example). They don't mention the update rate although the video
seems to indicate it is pretty good. <br>
<br>
Of course, most of the software could be developed now with the
existing sensor technology. If the sensor technology isn't good
enough, just wait six months for the virtual reality guys to drive
it forward since they need a high update rate as well.<br>
Start with the coaching analysis software which is relatively easy.<br>
For auto-judging I still see the need for one judge to be a zero
judge and score points on stall turns, snaps and spins. Perhaps also
to mark the termination of each maneuver. The software involved is
fairly complex as the maneuver size and centering are undefined
until the maneuver is complete and in absolute terms the downgrade
criteria are totally inadequate.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/9/2015 12:39 PM, Keith Hoard
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:BAY403-EAS311231A56FF9604AE3DABD8B8DD0@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
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<div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">If
you follow the link, some egg-heads have "broken the code" for
centimeter accuracy GPS using existing cheap antennas using
software only.
<br>
<br>
-Keith Hoard<br>
-Sent from my Windows Phone</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<hr>
<span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;
font-weight: bold;">From:
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:
11pt;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">John Gayer
via NSRCA-discussion</a></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;
font-weight: bold;">Sent:
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:
11pt;">5/9/2015 12:47</span><br>
<span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;
font-weight: bold;">To:
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:
11pt;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:underdw@gmail.com">Daniel Underkofler</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General
pattern discussion</a></span><br>
<span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;
font-weight: bold;">Subject:
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:
11pt;">Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Could this allow automated
scoring?</span><br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="background-color:#FFFFFF">Ground based GPS
augmentation systems exist and have been tested. However, I
haven't heard about anything in our price range. Typically in an
airport environment, the ground based transmitter is
broadcasting corrections to the satellite signals rather than an
imitation satellite signal.<br>
Standard micro GPS probably wouldn't know what to do with this
signal. Also the ground-based xmitter is not sized/priced for
us.
<br>
However , it may not be necessary to go that route. If we could
improve on the 3 meter accuracy a bit and the 10hz update rate
and expand the storage capacity....<br>
<br>
But rather than auto-judging, setting up a display showing the
plan view and vertical view graphically, perhaps with color
shading to indicate deviation from roll angle = 0 in realtime
would be an incredible advance in practice/coaching. Think
about it.<br>
In a square on corner, you would see directly the effect of the
top corner roll attitude being off 5 degrees and where that took
the third leg.
<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 5/9/2015 7:07 AM, Daniel
Underkofler via NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">It's great to see technology like this
approaching for at least partial automated judging.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Seems that resolving the altitude component
adequately is the largest challenge. To address this, I
had envisioned a local set of 3 "beacons", each emitting
GPS-like signals that are received and processed by a
transponder in the model. Yeah - expensive and even
more out in the future.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the short term, using high resolution and update
GPS to resolve XY location might be useful for partial
judging. Human judges would still be responsible for
the majority of the scoring, but a "correction factor"
for XY errors might be factored in. For instance, it is
terribly hard to judge the geometry of the horizontal
triangle in F15, but given good XY data, a portion of
the score could be addressed. Distance and parallelism
to the runway could also be determined and factored in
(somehow).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dan</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote">On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:33 PM,
John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">The judges are expected to
consider the track of the plane in an earth coordinate
system. For example the judges are supposed to
consider that a 45 degree climb appears steeper at the
end of the box than it does in the center. So the
track should be analyzed by the judges in an earth
coordinate system and the track of the model rather
than attitude.
<br>
<br>
The location of the pilot is actually irrelevant but
the location of the box is clearly of critical
importance. Knowing the actual location of the plane
with a fairly quick update rate is critical. At 120
feet/sec(approx 80 mph), horizontal position is no
problem. At this speed you need an update rate of
about 80 milliseconds to get a data point about every
10 feet. Not sure how good the GPS update rates are
these days but this should be achievable. IF the
altitude update rate is too slow then augment with an
altimeter. Since we are downloading this data from the
model, roll attitude could be transmitted as well for
wings level.<br>
<br>
We would still need a zero judge for snaps, spins and
stall turns and to establish when the pilot is lost in
a maneuver. It might be necessary to have an "advance
to the next maneuver" switch for that case.<br>
<br>
It would actually be a fascinating project to download
accelerations, roll, yaw and pitch rates for analysis
while observing snaps visually to see if standards
could be established about what is a snap and what
isn't.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<div>On 5/8/2015 1:24 PM, Peter Vogel via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Not by itself. Judging/Scoring is
from the perspective of the pilot + judges, not
from the perspective of the plane. (As opposed to
IAC, where it's from the perspective of the pilot
in the plane). For it to be done right you'd need
to know the precise location of the plane and the
precise location of the pilot, then calculate the
geometry of the plane's movements relative to the
perspective of the pilot's location.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The SoloShot 2 automatic cameraman does close
to what we want in tracking the movement of the
plane relative to a ground station, but from
that you'd still need to calculate geometries,
and wings level, etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Peter+</div>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote">On Fri, May 8, 2015 at
11:44 AM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc
solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">Cheap, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://goo.gl/mZg6RG"
target="_blank">
Centimeter accuracy GPS</a>.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">No more
complaints about biased judging?</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">-Keith Hoard</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:klhoard@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">klhoard@hotmail.com</a></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
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<div>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</div>
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