<p dir="ltr">There have been some issues in the somewhat distant past with what appeared to be manipulation of the rules on selection of judges by AMA and FAI. The wording as currently written would appear to open the door for FAI or AMA to arbitrarily decide what "applicable" means. Not good for fair and above board selection of judges. Perception is key.</p>
<p dir="ltr">This may simply be a problem of English not being the first language of many delegates, and subtle phrasing may escape them. I ran into this in my profession when dealing with a NATO organization.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Hopefully, Derek can get this corrected.</p>
<p dir="ltr">
<br>
<br>
Jon</p>
</br></br><div class="device_aol_et_org_dt_dd_quote"></div><hr style="border:0;height:1px;color:#999;background-color:#999;width:100%;margin:0 0 9px 0;padding:0;"></hr><span style="font-size:14px; color:#999999;">On Thursday, April 16, 2015 Atwood, Mark <<span style="color:#0000A0">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</span>> wrote:</span><br></br><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="aolReplacedBody">
They want to remove the term “Current” and replace it with “Applicable”….so I guess what we need to see defined is the word “Applicable” as it relates to this context. It’s my understanding that it simply means someone who has met the FAI’s criteria to be a judge, but not necessarily on the current roster. That’s a problem, since being current with the rules is really a necessary criteria, and is only enforced via the “current” guideline.
<div>
<br />
</div>
<div>
<br />
<div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<b style="font-size: 11pt; text-align: -webkit-auto; orphans: auto; widows: auto;"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);">MARK </span></b>
<b style="font-size: 11pt; text-align: -webkit-auto; orphans: auto; widows: auto;"><span style="font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(128, 189, 1);">ATWOOD</span></b>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; orphans: auto; widows: auto;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);">President</span></b>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);">o. (440) 229-2502</span>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);">c. (216) 316-2489</span>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);">e. </span>
<a href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com" style="font-size: 11pt; text-align: -webkit-auto;" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);"><a href='mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com'>atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a></span></a>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<br />
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);">Paragon Consulting, Inc.</span></b>
<b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);"></span></b>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);">5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124</span>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<span style="color: rgb(101, 100, 106);"><span style="color: rgb(101, 100, 106); font-size: 10pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif;"><a href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" style="color: purple;" target="_blank">www.paragon-inc.com</a></span></span>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<span style="font-size: 2pt; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);"> </span>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<a href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" style="color: purple;" target="_blank"></a>
<u><span style="color: rgb(101, 100, 106);"></span></u>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;">
<b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; color: rgb(101, 100, 106);">Powering The Digital Experience</span></b>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div> </span>
</div> </span>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br />
<div>
<div>
<div class="begin_alto_quote"></div>On Apr 16, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline" />
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
The primary author is the sub-committee - based on discussions that we had via email. Michael Ramel wrote the proposal and all the sub-committee agreed with the wording. I do agree that it could get lost in translation and perhaps we can fix it prior to voting.
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br />
<div class="gmail_quote">
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Jon Lowe
<span dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com" target="_blank">jonlowe@aol.com</a>></span> wrote:
<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<font size="2" face="arial">
<div>
I have to agree with Ron and Mark on this one. The rationale for the proposal says that it would be the current, and upcoming list. However, the way the rule change itself is actually worded allows for interpretation to be other than what the rationale provides. The wording and the rationale are not consistent.
</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
I'd recommend voting against this proposal, unless it is clarified to be in line with the rationale as stated.
</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
I note that the F3A subcommittee wrote this proposal, not any particular country. Would be nice to know who was the primary author.
</div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">
-----Original Message-----
<br /> From: Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
<br /> To: Ronald Van Putte <
<a href="mailto:vanputter@gmail.com" target="_blank">vanputter@gmail.com</a>>; General pattern discussion <
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
<br /> Sent: Thu, Apr 16, 2015 2:30 pm
<br /> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 Plenary Meeting
<br />
<br />
<div>
<div>
I tend to be in agreement with Ron on this one. I understand the motivation to remove the word “Current”, as it creates some logistical problems with timing. But they need to replace it with something less open ended, such as “Current, or immediately prior list…” so that the organizers can’t go back 15 years in time to a prior approved list to select a judge they happen to like who may or may not be active and current with the rules and sequences. The changes as proposed give them way too much room to invite just about anyone that has ever been on any list.
<div>
<br />
</div>
<div>
<br />
<div>
<div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;">
<div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;">
<div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;">
<div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;">
<span style="text-transform: none; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;">
<div>
<span style="text-transform: none; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;">
<div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 11pt; line-height: normal; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;">
<b style="font-size:11pt"><span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif">MARK </span></b>
<b style="font-size:11pt"><span style="color:rgb(128,189,1);font-family:Lato,sans-serif">ATWOOD</span></b>
</div>
<div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 11pt; line-height: normal; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal;">
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<b><span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">President</span></b>
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">o. <a href="tel:%28440%29%20229-2502" target="_blank">(440) 229-2502</a></span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">c. <a href="tel:%28216%29%20316-2489" target="_blank">(216) 316-2489</a></span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">e. </span>
<span style="color:rgb(101,100,106)"><a style="color:purple" href="mailto:larry.yoder@paragon-inc.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"></span></a><a href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com" target="_blank">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a></span>
<u><span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"></span></u>
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<br />
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<b><span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Paragon Consulting, Inc.</span></b>
<b><span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"></span></b>
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124</span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<span style="color:rgb(101,100,106)"><span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><a style="color:purple" href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target="_blank">www.paragon-inc.com</a></span></span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-size:2pt"> </span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<a style="color:purple" href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/" target="_blank"></a>
<u><span style="color:rgb(101,100,106)"></span></u>
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;font-size:11pt">
<b><span style="color:rgb(101,100,106);font-family:Lato,sans-serif;font-size:8pt">Powering The Digital Experience</span></b>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div> </span>
</div> </span>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br />
<div>
<div>
On Apr 16, 2015, at 2:17 PM, Ronald Van Putte via NSRCA-discussion <
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:
</div>
<br />
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2">The items below have been extracted from the agenda of the 2015 CIAM Plenary Meeting </font>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:small">to be held in the Mövenpick Hotel - Lausanne (Switzerland)</span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2">on <u>Friday 24 April and Saturday 25 April 2015.</u></font>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2"><br /> </font>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica"><font size="2">It is proposed that the words in <b><i>Bold Oblique</i></b> be removed from the appropriate section.</font></font>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2"><br /> </font>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2">The result of the first deletion is that the organizing committee would not have to use names from the current list of international judges and may pick judges whose names are not on the list.</font>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2"><br /> </font>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2">The second deletion is in line with the first deletion</font>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2"><br /> </font>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2">The third deletion would remove the requirement for recent judging experience.</font>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2"><br /> </font>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<font face="Helvetica" size="2"><br /> </font>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
<span style="font-size:18px">14.8 </span>Section 4C Volume
<span style="font-size:18px">F3 - RC Aerobatics</span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
aa) 5.9.10 c) Judging F3 Aero Subcommittee
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
Amend the paragraph as follows:
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
For World or Continental Championships the organiser must appoint one or more
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">panels of five judges each. The judges must be of different nationalities </span>
<span style="font-size:12px"><b><i>and must be</i></b></span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<span style="font-size:12px"><b><i>selected from a current list of international Judges</i></b></span>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">. Those selected must reflect the</span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
approximate geographical distribution of teams having participated in the previous
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
World Championships (if applicable) and the final list must be approved by the CIAM
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
Bureau. At least one third, but not more than two thirds of the judges must not
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
have judged at the previous World Championship. Judge assignment to the
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
panels will be by random draw.
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
Reason: Avoid doubling of the rule, see 5.9.10 d). The rule is meant to refer only to
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
one, the latest previous World Championship. Adaption to F3A
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
ab) 5.9.10 d) Judging F3 Aero Subcommittee
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
Amend the paragraph as follows:
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">The invited judges for World or Continental Championships must be selected from </span>
<span style="font-size:12px"><b><i>a</i></b></span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<span style="font-size:12px"><b><i>current</i></b></span>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">the applicable list of FAI international judges and must have had a</span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">reasonable amount of F3P or F3A judging experience </span>
<span style="font-size:12px"><b><i>within the previous twelve</i></b></span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px">
<span style="font-size:12px"><b><i>months</i></b></span>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"> and must submit a resume of his judging experience to the organiser when</span>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
accepting the invitation to judge at a World or Continental Championship. The
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
organiser must in turn submit the resumes to the CIAM Bureau for approval.
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
Reason: Since the available number of international judges may be limited in a
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
„current“ list, ie. a list becoming effective in the year of the championship actually
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
held should also serve as a resource of appointable judges. Judging criteria in F3P
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
are equal to F3A with both of them referring to the ANNEX 5B
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
<br />
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
I am not in favor of the deletions and wonder what NSRCA’s and AMA’s plans are.
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
<br />
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
Ron Van Putte
</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
<br />
</div>
</div> _______________________________________________
<br /> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<br />
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<br />
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>
</div>
</div>
<br />
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<pre style="font-size:9pt"><tt>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing
list
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></tt></pre>
</div>
</div> </font>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br />
</div> _______________________________________________
<br /> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<br />
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<br /> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>
</div>
</div>
<br />
</div>
</div>