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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sweet – I’ll have to try your system. I’ve NEVER gotten a 10 on
a snap. The best I ever got was a 9 - but I don’t use any “conditions” or “buttons”
either. I just fly it completely through with the sticks. Is that what I’m
doing wrong? LOL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>John Pavlick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cell: 203-417-4971<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=90 height=39 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.png@01D05066.ECBA6830" alt=idslogo2><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Integrated Development Services</span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter
Vogel via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 24, 2015 7:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jon Lowe; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Matt Finley ( Arming Plug )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>NOT THE WAY I FLY! My airplane is protected from snap
roll errors by a foolproof safety system that involves ensuring that I enter
and exit snap mode only if I stand on one leg while my caller calls the and
rests his/her hand on my shoulder whispering "snap mode" in my ear, I
then touch my ear twice in just the right way before flipping the switch on my
transmitter. Exiting snap condition is the exact opposite, I touch my ear
twice and my caller whispers "exit snap mode", I then return to a
two-legged stance and flip the switch on my transmitter. With this
absolutely foolproof safety system I am ensured of getting 10's on every snap I
do.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Peter+<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Jon Lowe via
NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Always stirring up trouble!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>If it ain't a barrel roll, and it ain't an axial roll, it must be a snap
roll. Best definition I ever heard for what is REALLY done in AMA and FAI.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Now we'll start hearing a whole bunch of BS about stalled conditions,
departure from straight and level, etc etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I'll shut up now.....<br>
<br>
Jon<o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-bottom:6.75pt;text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:#999999' align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
color:#999999'>On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 Ronald Van Putte via
NSRCA-discussion <</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;color:#0000A0'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;color:#999999'>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'>Please remember that I warned
about a potential “holy war” if we started discussing arming plugs. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'>Let’s talk about snap rolls or
something else that’s not controversial. I kinda think that the “flick
snaps” in F3A are really neat and the pilots whose airplanes perform the snaps
in which the tail cones all around should be severely downgraded.. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'>Ron Van Putte <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'>On Feb 24, 2015, at 3:15 PM,
Matthew Finley via NSRCA-discussion < <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>I know, I thought before this thread was over we
would be going back to one piece wings, single aileron and tail servos, and non
computerized tx's lol <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
font-family:"ArialMS","serif";color:#575757'>Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE
Device <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'><br>
<br>
-------- Original message --------</span> <span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'><br>
From: Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <</span> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></a>
<span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>> </span> <span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'><br>
Date: 02/24/2015 4:10 PM (GMT-05:00) </span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>To: </span> <a
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>jpavlick@idseng.com</span></a> <span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>, John Pavlick <</span>
<a href="mailto:jpavlick26@att.net" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>jpavlick26@att.net</span></a> <span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>>, General pattern
discussion <</span> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></a>
<span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>> </span> <span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matt Finley ( Arming Plug ) </span> <span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'><br style='text-align:
start;word-spacing:0px'>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>I know. This effectively kills the idea
for an automatic, electronic rag thrower. <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'><br>
On Feb 24, 2015, at 4:09 PM, John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion < <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.75pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Be careful, you just made WAY
too much sense! LOL</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>John Pavlick</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cell: <a href="tel:203-417-4971" target="_blank">203-417-4971</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><image001.png></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Integrated Development Services</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> NSRCA-discussion
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 24, 2015 3:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matt Finley ( Arming Plug )</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:0in'>An arming plug was never intended to be the cure-all for all
electric safety issues. I consider it a baseline that is easy to comply with.
All the anecdotal evidence in the world that each responder to this list is
safe does not help establish a minimum set of standards. Each one of you has a
good process that works for you. Each one of those processes could be easily
amended to incorporate an arming plug if it doesn't already.<br>
It isn't those with a good process that are the safety problem. It's the
neophyte that hears the experienced pilot expound on why he is safe without an
arming plug because he does everything else right. The beginner doesn't hear or
doesn't understand all the issues with setting up failsafe, throttle cut,
arming conditions, thumb on throttle stick that are part of that process of
achieving safe operations in the pits and on the runway whether you have an
arming plug or not.<br>
I have seen models without arming plugs, without external receiver switches and
canopies that require two hands to remove. Last time I checked failsafe
operation at a contest, full throttle kill was running about 50%. Most of the
remaining were simply going to hold which doesn't help at all if you already
have a problem. Eventually a setup like that will cause a disaster.<br>
An arming plug is a small thing to add. It can be done lightly, cheaply and
reliably. It provides a visual indication to all that the motor/ESC is
unpowered. It is not dependent on any other function in the model to
operate. <br>
John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On 2/23/2015 10:49 PM, Steve Hannah via NSRCA-discussion
wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I agree 100% with Jerry. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The multiple throttle kill approach is the best. I have seen
the same things as Jerry. The best safety approach is always a multi-pronged
solution. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I use a slider to drop the throttle below arming level and a
switch to nullify the throttle stick. Then, for added security I always hold
the stick down with my thumb as my caller/helper retrieves the plane. They
usually don't turn off the receiver so I assume my plane is live until I prove
otherwise and shut it down. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>An external plug is one way, but I fail to see how it
provides any more safety than my method. Switching it off from my transmitter
and disabling the throttle stick are very secure means and I know the ESC has
been shut down. I don't rely on a person to pull a plug. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:0in'>Along with that, proving you have a failsafe is a reasonable
request and shouldn't be an issue for anyone. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:0in'><br>
On Feb 23, 2015, at 08:50, Budd Engineering via NSRCA-discussion <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>At nearly every contest I've attended since I started flying
electric in pattern (the 2004 Nats in Masters) I've seen at least one
occurrence where someone retrieved a plane without removing an arming plug
first. Usually the pilot reminds the person to do it while they're
carrying the plane back or as they're setting it down somewhere. It
happens with my planes too and I make sure they switch the receiver off and
then I remove my canopy and disconnect the battery directly. But before
they even get that far I've taken the other steps to make sure there's
virtually no chance the motor is going to run. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>My point is this. A layered approach is the only way
I've found to effectively mitigate this particular risk to the levels of safety
that you claim. Relying on someone to remove an arming plug is not a
complete panacea and may lend a false sense of security that the motor system
has been de-energized, when in fact it may not have been. There's many
ways to manage the risk to the desired level, the use of an arming plug is one,
and may not necessarily be the best. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jerry <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:0in'><br>
On Feb 23, 2015, at 5:29 AM, Matthew Finley via NSRCA-discussion <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b>I use the Ultra Deans stlye Arming Plug from F3A
Unlimited, and It works very well. I would gather it provides you
with a 99 % dagree of confidence that your caller , plane carrier ,
yourself, or anyone else will not be harmed. Yes... I do agree that there is a
miniscuel chance that a pilot / caller could forget to unplug the safety,
however I feel most pilots that have been doing it a while is like tying your
shoes, or etc.... On all of my electrics except for indoor ships, I have some
sort of disconnect. I for one would like to see it an inforced rule at all
sanctioned meets not just pattern meets, that any plane over a certain
size or weight must have one in order to fly. Just my three pennies <br>
</b><br>
<br>
<b><i>Matthew E. Finley</i></b> <br>
QCI - Technology Assistant <br>
<a href="tel:614-557-3846" target="_blank">614-557-3846</a> Mobile <br>
<a href="mailto:mfinley@quadcityinnovations.com" target="_blank">mfinley@quadcityinnovations.com</a>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________ <br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________ <br>
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<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>_______________________________________________
<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
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<br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><Mail Attachment.txt> <span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>_______________________________________________</span>
<span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'><br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span> <span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:
"ArialMS","serif"'><br>
</span><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></a>
<span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'><br>
</span><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></a>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics
District X<o:p></o:p></p>
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