<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span></span></div><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">What about the Tesla fires in the dealer storage yard in NJ during hurricane Sandy? Or the one in the owners garage in Toronto?</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><a href="http://roxegoc.3rvering.ir/tesla-fire-sandy.php">http://roxegoc.3rvering.ir/tesla-fire-sandy.php</a></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/february-1st-toronto-tesla-fire-2014-2">http://www.businessinsider.com/february-1st-toronto-tesla-fire-2014-2</a></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Or the 787 fires?</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><a href="http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/12/news/companies/boeing-dreamliner-fire/index.html">http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/12/news/companies/boeing-dreamliner-fire/index.html</a></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Not to further belabor the discussion but let's not cherry pick our data. The point is the risks of fossil fuels is pretty well known while new technologies do present new risks. Given the governments history for rule making I am not sure which one scares me more. </span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Anthony<br></span><br><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Sent from my iPad</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>On Dec 3, 2014, at 8:52 PM, "Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><div><div dir="ltr">There have been SIX reported electric car fires in the past several years (none of which involved injury to any people in the car) with over 100,000 electric cars on the road and over 1 billion electric miles driven. In 2012 alone there were over 175,000 gasoline car fires, 300 deaths and 800 injuries in those fires. You are statistically MUCH more likely to experience a fire in a gasoline car than in an electric car (regardless of whether you divide by the # of electric cars or # of electric miles vs. the # of gasoline cars or # of gasoline miles driven). <div><br></div><div>Of the 5 Tesla fires, all were due to road debris penetrating the bottom of the chassis at highway speeds and tesla fixed that 2 ways: extra titanium armor on the bottom and a tweak to the software to not lower the car quite as much (to reduce drag) at highway speeds.<br><div><br></div><div>Peter+</div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 5:28 PM, John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Yes but gasoline power systems don’t short out. <u></u><u></u></span></p><span class="">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">John Pavlick<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Cell: <a href="tel:203-417-4971" value="+12034174971" target="_blank">203-417-4971</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><image001.png><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Integrated Development Services</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay
Marshall via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 03, 2014 8:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'John Gayer'; 'General pattern discussion'</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LIPOs on board?<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Autos will have no impact; they have been driving around, and
crashing, with 15 gal of highly flammable fuel for quite some time. I can
remember also, when dealing with LISO2 batteries that there were severe
restrictions on their weight. It was most embarrassing when we convinced a new
customer how great and safe they were and where they arrived they were marked “</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red">HAZZARDOUS
MATREIAL</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">”! <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC";color:#1f497d">Jay Marshall<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John
Gayer via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 03, 2014 5:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" target="_blank">jpavlick@idseng.com</a>; John Pavlick; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LIPOs on board?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If either happens there will be a s***storm over who is to
blame while ignoring what should be done to prevent a re-occurrence. Or
better yet put in place some reasonable laws to make an occurrence less likely,
keeping in mind the old story about the safest airplane.<br>
John<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/3/2014 2:45 PM, John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">And I wonder what will happen when there’s a major accident
involving an electric car on a highway somewhere…</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">John Pavlick</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Cell: <a href="tel:203-417-4971" value="+12034174971" target="_blank">203-417-4971</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><image001.png></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Integrated Development Services</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 03, 2014 4:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] LIPOs on board?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">This article appeared in the
Albuquerque Journal this morning. I was not aware that large shipments of
lithium batteries could still be just under my seat on my next flight. We all
know what havoc a single 10S pack can do if it catches fire. I find it hard to
believe that an airliner could survive a palletfull going up. It's no surprise
that the fire suppressant they used had no effect.<br>
There is a proposed rule going into effect the first of the year that is
supposed to eliminate commercial shipments from passenger airliners- if it
isn't blocked or postponed. I wonder what the checkin counter response would be
to a question of whether there is a shipment of lipos on board? Think they
could even find out that information?<br>
<br>
John Gayer<u></u><u></u></p>
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<h2 style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.8pt;margin-left:0in;background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#333333;font-weight:normal">Shipments of lithium-ion units raise concerns over fires, blasts</span><u></u><u></u></h2>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:.3in;line-height:14.4pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333">WASHINGTON — Dramatic U.S. government test results raise new
concern that bulk shipments of rechargeable lithium batteries carried as cargo
on passenger planes are susceptible to fires or explosions that could destroy
the airliners.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333"><image002.jpg></span><span><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#bbbbbb">This
video frame grab shows a test of a cargo container packed with 5,000
lithium-ion batteries and a cartrid</span></b></span><span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333">This
video frame grab shows a test of a cargo container packed with 5,000
lithium-ion batteries and a cartridge heater that resulted in a fire and
explosion.</span></b></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:.3in;line-height:14.4pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333">Yet U.S. and international officials have been slow to adopt
safety restrictions that might affect the powerful industries that depend on
the batteries and the airlines that profit from shipping them. The batteries
are used in products ranging from cellphones and laptops to hybrid cars.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:.3in;line-height:14.4pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333">Shipments of rechargeable batteries on passenger planes are
supposed to be limited to no more than a handful in a single box, under safety
standards set by the U.N.’s International Civil Aviation Organization and
adopted by the U.S. and other nations. But a loophole permits shippers to pack
many small boxes into one shipment and get around the rules. Tens of thousands
of the batteries may be packed into pallets or containers and loaded into the
cargo holds of wide-body passenger planes.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:.3in;line-height:14.4pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333">In an April test by the Federal Aviation Administration, a cargo
container was packed with 5,000 lithium-ion batteries and a cartridge heater
added to simulate a single battery experiencing uncontrolled overheating. The
heat from the cartridge triggered escalating overheating in nearby batteries,
which spread in a chain reaction. Temperatures reached about 1,100 degrees.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:.3in;line-height:14.4pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333">Once about 300 batteries had become involved, a fierce explosion
blew open the container door and sent boxes flying, catching FAA and industry
observers by surprise. Within seconds, the cargo container was in flames. The
explosion came from a buildup of flammable gases. A second test in September
produced similar results, despite the addition of a fire suppression agent.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:.3in;line-height:14.4pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333">The U.N.’s civil aviation agency is considering a series of
proposals to strengthen packaging, labeling and handling standards for
lithium-ion battery shipments, and airline pilot unions are pushing for limits
on the number of batteries that can be transported.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><u></u><u></u></pre></blockquote>
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<br>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
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<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</div><div>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark</div><div>Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X</div><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg" width="200" height="154"><img src="https://googledrive.com/host/0B4LOPeyGAgOJUVJmU1dJMVl6WWc/AcademyModelAeronauticsLogo.png" width="200" height="136"><br></div></div>
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