<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>As some who has competed in both IMAC and pattern with the same plane (Venus 120 glow) in the beginning classes I can tell you it's basically the same. Yes in IMAC there is a humpty and a 1 1/2 spin. But I have the same issues with these maneuvers as I do in pattern. Unequal lines between half rolls coming down from humpty. Under or over rotating spins, etc. The main difference is not a well defined "box" landings and take offs not judged, and flying the sequence twice per round. Overall I've found the IMAC guys to be just as helpful and welcoming. And it's a big planes game. But I finished higher than several competitors with a 1/4 scale 50cc. Precision is precision.</div><div><br>On Aug 25, 2014, at 11:38 AM, John Pavlick via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Lucky,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">No one says you HAVE to start in Sportsman. Ed Alt came to Pattern
from IMAC and ”started” in Advanced.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">FYI – Sportsman, at least at one point, was not “technically”
even an official Pattern class – it was a created as a provisional class to
get sport pilots involved in Pattern. My experience has shown me that here in
the Northeast (where the flying season is somewhat limited time-wise) there are
not very many “sport” pilots who can even fly a complete Pattern sequence
in the box right from the start. Add snaps and spins and you’re just
looking to turn people away. If they’re at that level I just tell them to
start in Intermediate or Advanced and see how it goes from there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">John Pavlick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Cell: 203-417-4971<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><image001.png><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Integrated Development Services</span><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> NSRCA-discussion
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>lucky
macy via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 22, 2014 3:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I actually
wouldn't mind if the lower classes could be made 'funner' and
more challenging. I don't know why spins and snaps can't be attempted in
lower classes than they currently are. Spins and snaps are at
the lower level IMAC. If someone doesn't like to compete
in IMAC, it's in spite of the fun knows, not because of them.<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" id="stopSpelling">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">To:
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:59:37 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Basically,
there has been quite a bit of deviation from the tradition here that
goes way back when performance was an issue and certain maneuvers were just
done a certain direction because of that. Rolling maneuvers were always
downwind, square loops for example upwind, top hat upwind, reverse Cuban
8s upwind, Cuban 8s downwind, triangle loops downwind, square horizontal eight
downwind, center stalls and spins having turnaround maneuvers after
them to allow the pilot to bring the aircraft in or out
because of wind drift while in the stalled condition, etc. <br>
<br>
I think what has really brought about this deviation from the norm
significantly more this time around is the design of recent FAI
sequences which have deviated a lot from what was done in the past.<br>
<br>
Maybe we need to add more design parameters and boundaries to the sequence
guide spelling out direction of flight of certain classes of maneuvers
for at least through Intermediate and to some extent
Advanced and a little bit in Masters. I guess you could peg the
blame on me for missing this when I put the original guidelines together
with the committee at that time. We do have many of the parameters which
help in designing a good sequence, but I guess we may need a few more.<br>
<br>
It is probably one of the reasons why there is such heated discussion
on the proposed sequences and that is partially due to the experience of the
current group of people on the sequence committee which is no fault of
their own. The previous committees had the advantage of having a few guys
who had many many years of involvement in past committees and just maybe
they should have been at the very least kept on in an advisory role. Hindsight
I guess.<br>
<br>
No one is really to blame here. If anything it should be a learning
experience and maybe some new parameters and boundaries need
to be added to the guideline design criteria for each class.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" id="ecxstopSpelling">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">To:
<a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">jpavlick@idseng.com</a>; <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 06:56:30 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Yes, you’re correct. And as I recall, that sequence
was described as being the worse sequence ever developed by one of the current
committee members. I assume because maneuvers were flown in the wrong
direction (Loop from top (u), Top Hat (d), Double I (d), downwind Rev
Shark’s Tooth?) Somewhere it must be written that rolling maneuvers
are always flown downwind but I can’t seem find it.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">I was asking because the sequence building module I have in the
scoring app does define direction for the center maneuvers and these two kicked
out as suspect. I guess I just went too far with the logic. </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> John Pavlick
[<a href="mailto:jpavlick26@att.net">mailto:jpavlick26@att.net</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 22, 2014 12:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Scott Smith'; 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Scott – wasn’t the Outside loop from the top
maneuver back in the “old” 402 sequence (around 2006) done as an
“upwind” maneuver? I can’t find any of my old call sheets but
I think it was.</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">John Pavlick</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Cell: 203-417-4971</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><image001.png></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Integrated Development Services</span><span style="font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Smith via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 20, 2014 4:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed sequences</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">A
couple questions on the intermediate sequence:</span><span style="font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Maneuver
6 Outside loop from the top (U) – Would that not typically be considered
a downwind maneuver?</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">And
maneuver 12 Square Loop (D) - Would that not typically be considered an upwind
maneuver?</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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