<div dir="ltr">Regarding the IMAC comparison, Rolling Turns start in the Intermediate class and only 1 roll inside per 90 degree is allowed. In the Advanced class, 1 roll inside per 90 degrees up to 270 degrees (IE< 3 roll 270 semi-circle). Unlimited has outside, inside, 360 degrees, and about any combination thereof. <div>
<br></div><div>Rolling loops are usually a loop with a "roll on top", or Loop with 1/2 roll on bottom (Intermediate). However, I haven't seen a true "integrated" rolling loop like in F3A. It is well within the typical Unlimited/Advanced setups. (big step increases in power are required as you climb IMAC classes.). </div>
<div><br></div><div>The rolling turn is something that is a phase-gate skill that is part of the decision to move up or not for flyers. Because sequences change yearly and there are unknowns, I don't believe there is much external pressure for pilots to changes classes, so the roller isn't quite the "make-it-or-break-it" deal is seems. In fact, if you can repeatedly "nail" your class's roller, that is usually a marker for someone who is about to move up.</div>
<div><br></div><div>thx Jim</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 2:27 PM, John Ford via NSRCA-discussion <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Impressive. <div>I can only imagine doing those with slow servos, heavy planes, and no rates or mixes.</div>
<div><br></div><div>John</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 28, 2014, at 2:08 PM, "Jeff and Claire" <<a href="mailto:jeffclaire@cableone.net" target="_blank">jeffclaire@cableone.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">Check out the attached scan from American Aircraft Modeler 1969-<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">45 years ago there was a rolling circle in Class B pattern. Class C included that plus a 2-roll loop. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">The '69 Nats five finalists and their equipment:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">Leonard: Taper-wing Kwik-Fli IV, Veco 61 w/muffler<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">Whitely; Lanier built Daddy Rabbit, Veco 61 w/muffler<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">Chidgey, Lanier built Citron III , SuperTigre 61<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">Bonetti, TroubleMaker, Webra 61 (early cross-flow)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">Edwards, New Orleanian, Veco 61<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">Some had retracts, but this was well before Schnurle porting and pipes. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">Point is, nothing on their equipment list comes even close to something like a Vanquish with a Himax motor. I'm late to the party still learning Intermediate skills. Wish I were in Masters and ready to learn integrated stuff.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'">Jeff Worsham<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:18px;font-family:'Comic Sans MS'"> </span></p><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span> </span>NSRCA-discussion [mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-" target="_blank">nsrca-</a><a href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Jas via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Monday, July 28, 2014 9:45 AM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>John Ford; General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2015 proposed Advanced maneuvers<u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Having flown the Integral past it's 'F3A' prime, it is easily still an F3A capable plane, even through F. Sure it is small by today's standards, it'll do any of the F stuff with ease. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">When I get back to the field I'll go through the new patterns again with a Vanquish and a 125 MythoS for the guys that are flying Advanced (I am curious how the planes will do in Masters too) but there isn't anything in either sequence that (IMO) can't be done. Even the KE corner should be fine with both planes.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">And Zach (2nd in Intermediate) found a great deal on a RTF Griffon at the Nats. I couldn't convince him that his Vanquish was fine through Masters (even F3A P)... must not be cool enough lol.<br>
<br>Sent from my iP<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>On Jul 28, 2014, at 10:30 AM, John Ford via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Curious about what "average" equipment might be. <u></u><u></u></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Other than an exceptionally beaten, old, poorly-maintained, dusty, wrinkled, barely airworthy plane that one might find used, is it really possible to buy anything that isn't currently competitive? <u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Would a venerable 9-year-old Integral or Abbra, with an original 8-year-old Pletty EVO, an APC prop, a Castle 80HV-V1 and a Zippy 20C battery qualify as an "average" plane nowadays?…but not still be able to get through the new Advanced in the hands of a pilot who can only practice one day a week?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
I can't see how it couldn't…<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
John<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On Jul 28, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Chuck Hochhalter via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
I disagree with average not being good enough to compete with. I have flown and competed successfully with avg equipment.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">One can also purchased very good used equipment from top pilots that has "better than avg" stuff in it often.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Chuck<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>On Jul 27, 2014, at 6:39 PM, Gary Switala via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> My comments on the new Advance schedule. I have 20 + flights on it with both other pattern guys and club members observing. The comments of the club members are: “Why is everything upside down?“; “ makes no sense to me“; from the pattern guys “ugly, damn ugly”; and “WTF.” From the flights I have put in I see that it’s not for the average Advanced flyer with an average plane with an average motor with an average battery set and with an average ESC . So looks like more $$$$ needs to be spent. Some of the maneuvers are bad enough, but the way they are arranged the true difficulty in their relationship to proceeding and succeeding maneuvers are not taken into account. As in # 5 to #6 and #9 to #10 to #11. I also do not understand why the figure 9 is only a K Factor of 1?? And why is the Shark’s tooth given the same K as the one we’re doing now. The new proposed one is an entirely different maneuver and considerably more difficult as proposed. This is a descending maneuver at 45 degs. doing 2/2 reverse rolls trying to slow the model down and hold a straight line and have enough speed and power to get through the outside Avalanche. I also take exception with the way the Hourglass has been butchered. It would make more sense replacing it with the Standing Eight starting in the center with options as it would add some of the missing gracefulness needed.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:17px;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
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