<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">The real issue, as usual, is how to truly enforce a 400' rule. How does a casual observer determine that my pattern plane was at 425 feet or even 725 feet, and if the observer believes it was…how does that get proven to the point of writing up a rules violation.<div>On the flip side, do casual observers start to cry wolf at 150 feet, thinking that the plane is bigger/smaller or farther/closer than it really is?</div><div><br></div><div>Almost impossible to enforce, (or easy to misuse) unless you happen to have a portable radar unit on your utility belt that also does GPS and trig and a few other tricks. </div><div><br></div><div>John</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Jun 24, 2014, at 3:19 PM, DaveL322 via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><div><div>Exactly.</div><div><br></div><div>While the capability exists, 400' is not routinely knowingly exceeded. I have no emails currently or on historical crashed hard drives that would counter this statement.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div style="font-size:75%">Regards,</div><div style="font-size:75%"><br></div><div style="font-size:75%">Dave</div><div style="font-size:75%"><br></div><div style="font-size:75%">Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note® 3</div><br><br><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "Dr. Michael Harrison, DDS via NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> </nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></div><div>Date:06/24/2014 3:42 PM (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: 'Peter Vogel' <vogel.peter@gmail.com>,'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> </nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></vogel.peter@gmail.com></div><div>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Rules </div><div><br></div><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">HEY!!! Everybody!!!SHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-<a href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 24, 2014 2:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> Larry and Eileen; General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Rules<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">The 400 foot rule used to be vague and open to the interpretation that it applied only within 3 miles of an airport. The current interpretation document eliminates the vagueness and not in our favor!<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Peter+<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Larry and Eileen via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The 400 ft. rule is not new, and everyone one in R/C has violated the rule at some point in time. If enforced, the limit will put an end to aerotowing, and most gliding as well. It’s never been an issue, because no one ever enforced the limit.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Larry Fitch</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a name="146cf4f560d9b703__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></a><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> NSRCA-discussion [mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:39 AM<br><b>To:</b> Robert L. Beaubien; General pattern discussion</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Rules<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">We could not fly with a 400 foot limit either. Patterns would have to change, planes probably even slower or smaller.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On 6/24/2014 2:34 PM, Robert L. Beaubien via NSRCA-discussion wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Actually it is 303m or 994 ft at 175m.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79"> Robert Beaubien</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79"> Sr. Software Architect</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4E79"> Kool Software LLC</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.25in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">"No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced."</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Duane Beck via NSRCA-discussion<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Patrick Harris; General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Rules</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Top of a 60 degree box at 175 meters out is almost 500'</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Duane</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">From: </span></b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">"Patrick Harris via NSRCA-discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br><b>To: </b>"Peter Vogel" <<a href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com" target="_blank">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a>>, "General pattern discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, June 24, 2014 2:20:47 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Rules</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">The IMAC boys will have a cow over the 400 foot rule. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="200" height="154" id="_x0000_i1026" src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>