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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>I only envision a problem if we have
private pilots flying at the legal 500 foot level at models being to close for
them to file a complaint.. I don't think the FAA is going to start routinely
showing up at our fields checking for height violations but I have seen on
numerous occasions some of our other big brother showing interest in our
activities and doing surveillance only when I saw them. I'm certain they were
not interested in how high we were flying but what our intent was and if we fit
an issue to warrant further scrutiny. Heaven forbid if we had to routinely fly
with a height violator on our planes ~~ < tic ></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">John Ford via
NSRCA-discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=DaveL322@comcast.net
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:00
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA
Rules</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>The real issue, as usual, is how to truly enforce a 400' rule.
How does a casual observer determine that my pattern plane was at 425 feet or
even 725 feet, and if the observer believes it was…how does that get proven to
the point of writing up a rules violation.
<DIV>On the flip side, do casual observers start to cry wolf at 150 feet,
thinking that the plane is bigger/smaller or farther/closer than it really
is?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Almost impossible to enforce, (or easy to misuse) unless you happen to
have a portable radar unit on your utility belt that also does GPS and trig
and a few other tricks. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>John</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 24, 2014, at 3:19 PM, DaveL322 via NSRCA-discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>>
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV>Exactly.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>While the capability exists, 400' is not routinely knowingly exceeded.
I have no emails currently or on historical crashed hard drives that
would counter this statement.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 75%">Regards,</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 75%"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 75%">Dave</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 75%"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 75%">Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note®
3</DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV>-------- Original message --------</DIV>
<DIV>From: "Dr. Michael Harrison, DDS via NSRCA-discussion"
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG></NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG></DIV>
<DIV>Date:06/24/2014 3:42 PM (GMT-05:00) </DIV>
<DIV>To: 'Peter Vogel' <VOGEL.PETER@GMAIL.COM>,'General pattern discussion'
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG></NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG></VOGEL.PETER@GMAIL.COM></DIV>
<DIV>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA Rules </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">HEY!!!
Everybody!!!SHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-<A
href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion<BR><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, June 24, 2014 2:23 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Larry and Eileen; General
pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA
Rules<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>The 400 foot rule used to be vague and open to the
interpretation that it applied only within 3 miles of an airport. The
current interpretation document eliminates the vagueness and not in our
favor!<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Peter+<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Larry and Eileen via
NSRCA-discussion <<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>> wrote:<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
400 ft. rule is not new, and everyone one in R/C has violated the rule at
some point in time. If enforced, the limit will put an end to
aerotowing, and most gliding as well. It’s never been an issue,
because no one ever enforced the limit.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Larry
Fitch</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><A name=146cf4f560d9b703__MailEndCompose><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN></A><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
NSRCA-discussion [mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 24, 2014
11:39 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Robert L. Beaubien; General pattern
discussion</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA
Rules<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal>We
could not fly with a 400 foot limit either. Patterns would have to
change, planes probably even slower or smaller.<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>On 6/24/2014 2:34 PM, Robert L. Beaubien via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Actually
it is 303m or 994 ft at 175m.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">-</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f4e79; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> Robert
Beaubien</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">-</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f4e79; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> Sr.
Software Architect</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">-</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f4e79; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> Kool
Software LLC</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.25in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.25in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">"No
trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however a large number
of electrons were terribly inconvenienced."</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
NSRCA-discussion [<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Duane Beck via NSRCA-discussion<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday,
June 24, 2014 11:29 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Patrick Harris; General pattern
discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAA
Rules</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Top of a
60 degree box at 175 meters out is almost 500'</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Duane</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'">From: </SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'">"Patrick Harris via
NSRCA-discussion" <<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR><B>To:
</B>"Peter Vogel" <<A href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com"
target=_blank>vogel.peter@gmail.com</A>>, "General pattern discussion"
<<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR><B>Sent:
</B>Tuesday, June 24, 2014 2:20:47 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] FAA Rules</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'">The
IMAC boys will have a cow over the 400 foot
rule. </SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><BR><BR><O:P></O:P></P><PRE>_______________________________________________<O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><O:P></O:P></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<P
class=MsoNormal><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
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target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR clear=all><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>-- <O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft
Skypark<O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><IMG id=_x0000_i1026 border=0
src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"
width=200
height=154><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
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<HR>
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