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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>+1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Atwood,
Mark<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 30, 2014 1:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] Was Bakersfield contest - now discussion on
normalization.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The reality is that "most" of the time, all of
these methods will get it right. All of them how outliers that
demonstrate their flaws. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The question becomes what flaws are more egregious and lead
to bad outcomes. Raw scoring, and normalizing to the perfect score are
virtually the same thing and will mathematically result in the same outcome.
It does not normalize the rounds to be equal in weight and allows for a
"blowout" round to offset multiple close rounds. There's a
myriad of reasons we no longer use raw scores. But even raw scores
provided the right outcome "most" of the time. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Normalizing to the highest score has been the accepted way
of late. It has the significant advantage of making each round equal in value.
It suffers most notably when one or several pilots miss a round ( for
whatever reason). This very very rarely changes the outcome of the 1st
place winner, but can significantly alter the lower standings. This is
most noticed at nationals when people are fighting for a position in the semi
finals or finals. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Normalizing to the average does the reverse. Still
maintains equal value in each round but Improves the accuracy of the middle
outcomes at the expense of a possibly less accurate 1st place outcome.
This is appealing if your fighting for the finals cutoff but I think most
would agree that at the end of the day we're trying to pick the winner. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>With that in mind, I think we currently have the correct
normalization process. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Mike'a concern of throwing away too much data is a very
valid, albeit completely different issue. That to me is less of a mathematical
issue than a potentially contentious discussion about the subjectivity of our
discipline. The argument to throw out highs and lows (I disagree with
doing this) is based fundamentally on the assumption that those scores are
wrong. The 10 was erroneous or the 0 was erroneous etc. In practice
this only serves to call into question the quality of the judge. It was
meant to counter the problem with regional "style" especially with
regard to snaps and spins, where a spurious Zero could ruin a round.
We've done a LOT to reduce these problems over the years and I think our
overall judging is the best it's ever been. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Keeping rounds is slightly different in its intent.
Only part of that is meant to address equipment reliability. Many
many many sports reward consistency and still allow for a misstep.
Athletic sports typically play series... Best 3of5, 4 of 7, etc.
Subjective sport that don't do this (skating, gymnastics, etc) also don't have
you perform more than once. We are a hybrid of the two. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>My $0.02<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Mark<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
Sent from my average intelligence phone<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Apr 29, 2014, at 6:02 PM, "Jas S" <<a
href="mailto:justanotherflyr@gmail.com">justanotherflyr@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Can the results be run normalized like normal to see if
there are any changes? Would be interesting to see if anything changes. My
guess is it probably won't, but might show any kind of difference between doing
it this way and the other way.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Del R <<a
href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com" target="_blank">drykert2@rochester.rr.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Hi
Mike.. While I concede it has rarely happened in the past but their have been
repeated occurrences d/t possible judge overload, Miss understanding of
maneuver being flown etc. some have earned positive scores when a zero was
deserved. My gripe with the current system especially at the NATS settings is
when the lowest scoring judge is look at with suspicion when they are they
only one who catches a zero maneuver. On the surface of the data it appears to
be the bad judge. In actuality the other judges missed the zero. Again
Compromise. I accept it is never done intentionally by anyone but when judges
work harder than pilots it makes me question the system that is at times
rewarding the wrong apple. Now I'm fairly confident in the overall scheme of
average flying over the season the consistently best pilot is still truly the
one who wins most often. My issue is the lack of acknowledgment by those that
control the direction of P.A. at times are willing to throw out the baby with
the bath water. The drive to constantly make maneuvers more complex to
challenge the pilots is rarely evaluated to what it does to the people that are
required to become familiar with the constantly changing schedule depending on
which class they are to be called on to judge. Some have had to judge 3 and in
rare cases 4 other classes besides the one they are flying in. That isn't
ideal either. With everything being purely voluntary and some have to leave
part way through without judging skews the load. In the past some would even
show up late to register to attempt to avoid judging at all. If judging has
become that difficult then the community should be taking a hard look at
how fledgling pilots in the lower classes handle and accept those challenges.
While some can accept it quite readily others are not so adept. Do we slam
the door on their desire to compete and attend more contests. I have never
seen the community reverse any of it major changes when it has hurt attendance.
The priority is always for the betterment of FAI pilots in the WORLDS. While
those are admiral goals of the organization my contention is if they want to
encourage participation they need to change some of their priorities a little. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span><span
style='color:#888888'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>
Del</span><span style='color:#888888'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net"
target="_blank" title="drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">Dr. Michael Harrison, DDS</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Tuesday, April 29,
2014 3:14 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Bakersfield Bashscores areon the NSRCA website...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>and
data we are picking may not be the right data or we are throwing away
good data and possibly picking the wrong competitor,,,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Del
R<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bakersfield Bash scores areon the NSRCA
website...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Mike..
Over the years many of the negative down sides have been repeatedly pointed out
regarding using the current system and while I truly concur with your opinion
the ruling part sees nothing wrong with throwing away some rounds which is
against the very attribute they contend to support. If the overall best average
pilot shows up each round and does their best then they would secure their
place. Belittling any judges work manning the chair by throwing away their work
is counter-productive to the hard work they put in with their calibrated
eyeballs. It is all about what is an acceptable compromise. In a perfect world
all judges would be focused and catch every zero but when the maneuvers are as
complex as they have become it is a daunting task for new pilots to master let
alone feel comfortable about advancing to the point they have to man the chair
to compete. The sport has become so complex one needs professional caller
and when you have maintaince issues to tend to while having to go man the chair
makes it less than desirable. Maybe that is why many are glad to have the
choice of throwing one of their flights away. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>
Del</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original
Message ----- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank"
title="drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">Dr. Michael Harrison, DDS</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Tuesday, April 29,
2014 11:51 AM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Bakersfield Bash scores areon the NSRCA website...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My
2-1=1 cents, There is no perfect scoring system. The system used at
bakersfield regresses back to winning with a " BarnBurner score" on
the last flight of the contest and this suffers the dilemma of becoming the
popularity contest we used to deal with. Normalizing normally rewards the
consistently best pilot, however there are always exceptions and extreme
examples to the contrary. This holds true in all competitive events of any
type. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
believe where we fall short today is that we throw away too much data.
Examples would be dropping the high and low score of each flight,
dropping the worst flight at a contest, counting only 4 flights of contests with
more than 4 flights, throwing away previous flights at major events, ie.
eliminating the prelims scores at major events, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>With
the reliability of all our equipment and the technology present today, we
should do more to retain more of the judging we have done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>More
and more is being done via various methods(TBL, dropping high and low scores,
dropping worst flights, etc) to create an "average score" which is
erroneously considered the best most fair score. I believe this is a
mistake. I believe we should keep the high and low scores, the worst
flights, whatever. We don't really have the statistical data to do TBL
properly, in my opinion, it should be eliminated. It definitely has an
adverse affect on the judges ability to do his job. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I believe
we should work to keep much more data. I believe we can create systems to
do that. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>On
another note, I believe this is one really good contest, would love to have
been there. Probably the premier "local" contest of the nation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mike </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Apr 29, 2014, at 8:19 AM, <a href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net" target="_blank">ronlock@comcast.net</a>
wrote<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ron Lockhart</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From: </span></b><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"Mark Atwood" <<a
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com" target="_blank">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>><br>
<b>To: </b>"General pattern discussion" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:01:04 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bakersfield Bash scores are on
the NSRCA website...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It does not normalize the rounds.
One round can be worth more than another. Easy vs hard judges, calm
vs windy conditions, etc. Especially with throw aways it's critical that
all the round have the same "value". </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>That said, I can see an interest in
normalizing to the average score, rather than to the top score. It
minimizes some of the variance when a key flyer doesn't fly the round either
due to a problem or simply choosing not to fly after winning the first 4
rounds. Particularly in that last scenario, it makes the remaining rounds
much more valuable to the 2nd and 3rd place flyers. <br>
<br>
Sent from my average intelligence phone</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
On Apr 28, 2014, at 8:27 PM, "Peter Vogel" <<a
href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com" target="_blank">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Well, it's normalization of a sort, in
that it's a percentage of perfect within each class, so a 984 in Intermediate
and a 984 in Sportsman mean the same thing, you flew 98.4% of the perfect score
(no, I haven't seen a score that high! :-) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Overall though, I don't like the
dynamic of it. It's very clear when you have a highly critical set of
judges, everyone pretty much drops that round. Normalization to best is
definitely a superior way for people to see how they are doing relative to the
best pilot in the round for a particular set of judges, regardless of how
critical (or not) they happen to be. An interesting experiment, but I
wouldn't recommend it for future contests.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Peter+</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:08 PM, John
Gayer <<a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net" target="_blank">jgghome@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It is a misnomer to call what was used
normalization. It is actually a reversion to the pre-normalization scoring
scheme of yesteryear. The only difference from the old days is that by
"normalizing" to a perfect score, you can immediately see the average
raw score per maneuver.<span style='color:#888888'><br>
John</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>On 4/28/2014 6:15 PM, Anthony Romano
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>So why the change in normalization?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Anthony</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:04:28 -0700<br>
From: <a href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com" target="_blank">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bakersfield Bash scores are on the NSRCA
website...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Final data from the contest is also
available here:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="http://www.patternscoring.com/560" target="_blank">http://www.patternscoring.com/560</a>,
the per-contestant report is considerably richer than what you get on <a
href="http://nsrca.us/" target="_blank">nsrca.us</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I also just completed an analysis of
what would have happened if we'd normalized to best instead of to perfect, the
only class where it would have made a difference in final placement was FAI
Silver (MP15) where Jon's win in one round and 2nd place rounds were closer to
Sean's scores than Dale's 2nd place rounds would have put him about 30 points over
Dale.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Peter+</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:17 AM,
Peter Vogel <<a href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com" target="_blank">vogel.peter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>That's not the scoring program, the
XML says "Prelim", "1", "2" for the flight
number, but the web server's transformation is showing it as "1",
"2" and "0".</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Peter+</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:07 AM,
Derek Koopowitz<<a href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com" target="_blank">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Everyone,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The NSRCA website is back up and
running again... our host was doing some maintenance on the server. The
scores for the Bakersfield contest have been posted and just to let everyone
know...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>1. Every score
is normalized to PERFECT, not to best pilot</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2. Every AMA
class flew 2 final rounds on Sunday using unknowns</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>3. Best 3 of 4
prelim rounds were AVERAGED to produce a SINGLE round score to carry over into
the finals.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>4. Best 2 of 3
(prelim carry over + 2 final rounds = 3) count for the final score.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>In FAI F, Prelim
carry over is shown as Round 1, Round 2 is first finals round, and round 3 is
the 2nd final round -- for some reason the scoring program is showing that as
round 0.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888'><br>
<br clear=all>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888'>-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888'>Director, Fixed Wing
Flight Training</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888'>Santa Clara County Model
Aircraft Skypark</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888'><img border=0 width=200
height=154 id="_x0000_i1027"
src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<br clear=all>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft
Skypark</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><img border=0 width=200 height=154
id="_x0000_i1028"
src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing
list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<br clear=all>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft
Skypark</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><img border=0 width=200 height=154
id="_x0000_i1029"
src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"><br>
_______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"ArialMS","serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jason<br>
<a href="http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/" target="_blank">http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
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