<div dir="ltr"><div>Boy, you guys got me wondering what all the hub-bub was all about so I had to go and take a look and I think that I&#39;m probably in partial agreement with John. As I see it,It&#39;s simple geometry. After the turnaround it has to be classified as a &quot;center maneuver&quot; and center maneuvers should be centered !&nbsp; The total width of the maneuver is equal to the diameter of the loop, therefore the loop must be presented in a way that displays one half of it&#39;s area, irrespective of it&#39;s size, on either side of the center line which would require that the vertical upline&nbsp;be offset past center on entry a distance equal to the radius of the loop. The loop is the key element for the centering of this maneuver and the Aresti is incorrectly drawn IMHO.&nbsp;&nbsp; Sorry if I muddied the waters here guys, but the forum appeared to be open.</div>
<div>Georgie</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:02 PM, John Gayer <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net" target="_blank">jgghome@comcast.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Derek,<br>
    &quot;Somewhere in the 3/4 loop portion&quot; is awfully vague and
    unjudgeable. I could buy anywhere in the 3/4 loop portion but not
    somewhere.<br>
    The center you are describing would appear to be affected somehow by
    the entry and exit lines of the maneuver as per your description in
    the March K-Factor. I don&#39;t see that. This maneuver(figure 9) could
    be described as a single loop with a straight vertical line between
    the first quadrant and the last three quadrants. What rolls occur do
    not affect that basic shape. That places the center of the maneuver
    at the initial pullup into a quarter loop just as it would for a
    simple loop. The apex of the 3/4 loop would also be on the
    centerline and so would the return to level flight at the exit.<br>
    As far as the straight line entry and exit being somehow offset, I
    don&#39;t see that either. The entry line ends at the quarter loop
    pullup and exit line begins upon completion of the 3/4 loop. Those
    two points should form a vertical line. I see that as the maneuver
    centerline as well.<br>
    It&#39;s certainly true that the aresti shows the wrong center and it is
    certainly true that the sub-committee chair has the last word but he
    should be using a better word than &quot;somewhere&quot;.<br>
    John<br>
    <div>On 4/8/2014 3:22 PM, Derek Koopowitz
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      
      
      
      <div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Anthony,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">This
            shouldn&rsquo;t be confusing at all&hellip; the center of the maneuver is
            the middle point between the start and end of the maneuver.&nbsp;
            How much more simple can it get?&nbsp; &nbsp;The statement that the
            &ldquo;middle should be somewhere in the &frac34; loop portion&rdquo; is
            correct &ndash; depending on the size of the &frac34; loop which must
            match the radius of the &frac14; loop from horizontal to vertical
            when the maneuver starts.&nbsp; That center portion will change
            for every pilot as each pilot will fly it differently.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Your
            comment about &ldquo;many outside the US&rdquo; isn&rsquo;t accurate &ndash; if they
            see it differently then they are incorrect.&nbsp; The
            clarification I got is straight from the F3 sub-committee
            chair&hellip;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">-Derek<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">
                <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
                [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On
                  Behalf Of </b>Anthony Romano<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 08, 2014 11:27 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges
                Chair<u></u><u></u></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Would
              love to see a review of maneuver 13 of the Finals
              sequence. In the March Kfactor the center was described as
              &quot;should be the middle&nbsp;of the maneuver&nbsp;somewhere in the&nbsp;&frac34;
              loop portion.&quot; While the many outside the US see it that
              the loop is centered and the Aresti in the latest FAI
              sporting code show the upline being centered.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">A
                bit confusing,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Anthony<u></u><u></u></span></p>
            <div>
              <div align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                  <hr width="100%" size="2" align="center"></span></div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Date:
                  Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:28:00 -0700<br>
                  From: <a href="mailto:joncarter60@comcast.net" target="_blank">joncarter60@comcast.net</a><br>
                  To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
                  Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges Chair<u></u><u></u></span></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hey
                    guys - we got an excellent suggestion from the group
                    for last month&#39;s article so I thought I would ask
                    again! Anyone have a burning maneuver or judging
                    question? Just let me know.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Jon
                    Carter<u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Judging
                    Committee Chairman<u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(87,87,87);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:7pt">Sent
                      via the Samsung GALAXY S&reg;4, an AT&amp;T 4G LTE
                      smartphone<u></u><u></u></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
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