<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Bottom line is that to get a 10 on this maneuver, the center IS the center of the loop. Pull starts at the center line and the top loop ends on the center line. There's absolutely no way to draw this with equal radii and not have the center be the center of the loop. <br><br>Sent from my average intelligence phone<div><br></div></div><div><br>On Apr 8, 2014, at 8:45 PM, "J N Hiller" <<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle22"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">I’d agree
with that if the center is not relative to or based on the overall size – width
of the geometry flown.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle22"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">I just
need to know.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle22"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial">Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle22"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<b><span style="font-weight:
bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jon Lowe<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 08, 2014 5:37
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
>From the Judges Chair</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><font size="3" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">I don't
agree with your sentence,</span></font><font size="4" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"> "</span></font><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Perfect
geometry with equal radiuses wound center on the start of the ¼ R, but cannot
be confirmed until the ¾ loop radius is judged to be equal. " </span></font></span><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Since the loops are supposed to be equal
in size, the start of the 1/4 loop to vertical defines the center of the
maneuver. </span></font></span><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">That should be on the center
pole. And in FAI, the first radius determines the radii for the entire
maneuver (5B.8.4) As I said in a previous post, since that is center,
then the top 3/4 loop must have the same center. Just because they do the
top wrong, not matching the first radius, does not change the center of
the entire maneuver.</span></font></span><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span class="apple-style-span"><font size="4" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black">Jon</span></font></span><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: J N Hiller <<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>><br>
To: General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Tue, Apr 8, 2014 7:25 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges Chair<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_418d1e1c-cf55-48e2-a62f-2637ec4b4c49">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy">
</span></font></span></p><div vlink="blue" link="blue"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial">I’m one of the folks that sit in the chair and
judge this stuff.</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy">Referencing - 2014 FAI Sporting Code - F3 Aerobatics.pdf<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>- under lines 5B.8.3, entry and exit lines
need to be horizontal and of recognizable length. I understand this to mean,
not equal in length and no specific length. Both lines could be within the
boundary of the geometry.</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy">Perfect geometry with equal radiuses wound center on the
start of the ¼ R, but cannot be confirmed until the ¾ loop radius is judged to
be equal. </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy">A maneuver having un-equal radiuses would center the maneuver
to no predefined point which will be somewhere within the 3/4 loop.</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy">A larger radius ¾ loop would offset the center towards the
entrance side where a smaller radius ¾ loop would offset the center towards the
exit side neither of which will be directly above the start of the ¼ loop.
Understanding this, there can be no pre-stated center reference.</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy">Jim Hiller</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy">Spokane</span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span class="emailstyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jas S<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 08, 2014 3:54
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
>From the Judges Chair</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
6.0pt;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black">If there was
a roll on the exit, then I think we would be in the 'somewhere' center right? <br>
<br>
Time for dinner, need to replenish... </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black">On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Jas S <<a href="mailto:justanotherflyr@gmail.com">justanotherflyr@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style="border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)">
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt">
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black"><a href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-pattern-flying-101/11596737-f-15-figure-9-centerline-question.html" target="_blank">http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-pattern-flying-101/11596737-f-15-figure-9-centerline-question.html</a></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black">Post #8</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:76.8pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black">On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Jas S <<a href="mailto:justanotherflyr@gmail.com">justanotherflyr@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt">
<div style="border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:81.6pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black">
</span></font></p><div style="border:currentColor"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman">Oh yea, forgot about those lol. Being in a
straight line, the 'line' (whole maneuver) is centered with those.</font></div><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:81.6pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black">Someone posted a drawing of the 9 on RCU, and while the center is
the whole maneuver works, isn't it going to be the center of the loops/roll
when done correctly?</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:81.6pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:81.6pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black">On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Derek Koopowitz <<a href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.2in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D">
</span></font></p><div style="border:currentColor"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial">
</font><div bgcolor="white" vlink="#954F72" link="#0563C1"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial">So in years past we’ve had
a 1 ½ snap roll followed by a 2 ½ rolls in the opposite direction. Where
is the center on that maneuver? The center is the mid-point between the
start and finish of the maneuver (including straight line in and straight line
out). There is no definitive middle to these types of maneuvers and so a
statement that it is “somewhere in between the 2 ½ rolls” would be accurate as
well – it depends on how fast/slow those rolls were done.</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
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padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold">
</span></font></b></p><div style="border:currentColor"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial">From:</font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>John Gayer<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 08, 2014 3:03
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion</span></font></div>
<font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.9in;border:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
>From the Judges Chair</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div style="border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.9in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black">
</span></font></p><div style="border:currentColor"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"> </font></div><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.9in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black">Derek,<br>
"Somewhere in the 3/4 loop portion" is awfully vague and unjudgeable.
I could buy anywhere in the 3/4 loop portion but not somewhere.<br>
The center you are describing would appear to be affected somehow by the entry
and exit lines of the maneuver as per your description in the March K-Factor. I
don't see that. This maneuver(figure 9) could be described as a single loop
with a straight vertical line between the first quadrant and the last three
quadrants. What rolls occur do not affect that basic shape. That places the
center of the maneuver at the initial pullup into a quarter loop just as it
would for a simple loop. The apex of the 3/4 loop would also be on the centerline
and so would the return to level flight at the exit.<br>
As far as the straight line entry and exit being somehow offset, I don't see
that either. The entry line ends at the quarter loop pullup and exit line
begins upon completion of the 3/4 loop. Those two points should form a vertical
line. I see that as the maneuver centerline as well.<br>
It's certainly true that the aresti shows the wrong center and it is certainly
true that the sub-committee chair has the last word but he should be using a
better word than "somewhere".<br>
John</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.9in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black">On 4/8/2014 3:22 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div style="border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D">
</span></font></p><div style="border:currentColor"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial">Anthony,</font></div><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial">
</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D">This shouldn’t be confusing at all… the center of the
maneuver is the middle point between the start and end of the maneuver.
How much more simple can it get? The statement that the “middle
should be somewhere in the ¾ loop portion” is correct – depending on the size
of the ¾ loop which must match the radius of the ¼ loop from horizontal to
vertical when the maneuver starts. That center portion will change for
every pilot as each pilot will fly it differently.</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D">Your comment about “many outside the US” isn’t accurate –
if they see it differently then they are incorrect. The clarification I
got is straight from the F3 sub-committee chair…</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D">-Derek</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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Arial;color:#1F497D"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div style="border-color:currentColor currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-top-alt:
solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold">
</span></font></b></p><div style="border:currentColor"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial">From:</font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Anthony Romano<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 08, 2014
11:27 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
>From the Judges Chair</span></font></div>
<font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt">
<div style="border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black">
</span></font></p><div style="border:currentColor"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"> </font></div><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black">Would love to see a review of maneuver 13 of the Finals sequence.
In the March Kfactor the center was described as "should be the
middle of the maneuver somewhere in the ¾ loop portion."
While the many outside the US see it that the loop is centered and the Aresti
in the latest FAI sporting code show the upline being centered.</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black">A bit confusing,</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:.5in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Anthony</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:
.5in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:2.4in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;
border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:.5in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
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</span></font></p><div style="border:currentColor"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial">Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:28:00 -0700<br>
From: <a href="mailto:joncarter60@comcast.net">joncarter60@comcast.net</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges Chair</font></div><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial">
</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black">Hey guys - we got an excellent suggestion from the group for last
month's article so I thought I would ask again! Anyone have a burning maneuver
or judging question? Just let me know.</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
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color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
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color:black">Thanks,</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black">Jon Carter</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black">Judging Committee Chairman</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"> </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="1" color="#575757" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#575757">Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE
smartphone</span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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color:black"><br>
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:2.4in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black"><br>
<br style="mso-special-character:line-break">
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><br style="mso-special-character:line-break">
<!--[endif]--></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<pre style="mso-margin-top-alt:12.0pt;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:2.4in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;border:currentColor"><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";color:black">_______________________________________________</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:
2.4in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;border:currentColor"><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";color:black">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:
2.4in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;border:currentColor"><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";color:black"><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:
2.4in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;border:currentColor"><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";color:black"><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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<div style="border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.9in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black">
</span></font></p><div style="border:currentColor"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"> </font></div><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.9in;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black"><br>
</span></font></p><div style="border:currentColor"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman">_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></font></div><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt">
<div style="border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:81.6pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black"><br>
</span></font></p><div style="border:currentColor"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><br clear="all" style="mso-special-character:
line-break">
</font></div><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:81.6pt;
border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="#888888" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#888888">-- </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:81.6pt;
border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="#888888" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#888888">Jason<br>
<a href="http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/" target="_blank">http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/</a></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt">
<div style="border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:76.8pt;
border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black"><br>
</span></font></p><div style="border:currentColor"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><br clear="all" style="mso-special-character:
line-break">
</font></div><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman">
</font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font><p></p>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:76.8pt;
border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><span class="hoenzb"><font size="3" color="#888888" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:#888888">-- </span></font></span><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style="border:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:76.8pt;
border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="#888888" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#888888">Jason<br>
<a href="http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/" target="_blank">http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/</a></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext .75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;
border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid windowtext .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- </span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;
border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid windowtext .75pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black">Jason<br>
<a href="http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/" target="_blank">http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/</a></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"></span></font></tt></pre></div><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS">
</font></tt><div id="AOLMsgPart_3_418d1e1c-cf55-48e2-a62f-2637ec4b4c49"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></font></tt><pre style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre></div>
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</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>