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That one I agree with because of the asymmetry of the two rolling
maneuver segments on a straight line. You have yet to convince me
that a figure nine is asymmetric. Please read my description again
and tell me where it is wrong.<br>
John<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/8/2014 4:21 PM, Derek Koopowitz
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So
in years past we’ve had a 1 ½ snap roll followed by a 2 ½
rolls in the opposite direction. Where is the center on
that maneuver? The center is the mid-point between the
start and finish of the maneuver (including straight line in
and straight line out). There is no definitive middle to
these types of maneuvers and so a statement that it is
“somewhere in between the 2 ½ rolls” would be accurate as
well – it depends on how fast/slow those rolls were done.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>John Gayer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 08, 2014 3:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges
Chair<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Derek,<br>
"Somewhere in the 3/4 loop portion" is awfully vague and
unjudgeable. I could buy anywhere in the 3/4 loop portion but
not somewhere.<br>
The center you are describing would appear to be affected
somehow by the entry and exit lines of the maneuver as per
your description in the March K-Factor. I don't see that. This
maneuver(figure 9) could be described as a single loop with a
straight vertical line between the first quadrant and the last
three quadrants. What rolls occur do not affect that basic
shape. That places the center of the maneuver at the initial
pullup into a quarter loop just as it would for a simple loop.
The apex of the 3/4 loop would also be on the centerline and
so would the return to level flight at the exit.<br>
As far as the straight line entry and exit being somehow
offset, I don't see that either. The entry line ends at the
quarter loop pullup and exit line begins upon completion of
the 3/4 loop. Those two points should form a vertical line. I
see that as the maneuver centerline as well.<br>
It's certainly true that the aresti shows the wrong center and
it is certainly true that the sub-committee chair has the last
word but he should be using a better word than "somewhere".<br>
John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 4/8/2014 3:22 PM, Derek Koopowitz
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Anthony,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This
shouldn’t be confusing at all… the center of the maneuver
is the middle point between the start and end of the
maneuver. How much more simple can it get? The
statement that the “middle should be somewhere in the ¾
loop portion” is correct – depending on the size of the ¾
loop which must match the radius of the ¼ loop from
horizontal to vertical when the maneuver starts. That
center portion will change for every pilot as each pilot
will fly it differently.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Your
comment about “many outside the US” isn’t accurate – if
they see it differently then they are incorrect. The
clarification I got is straight from the F3 sub-committee
chair…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Derek</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Anthony Romano<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 08, 2014 11:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges
Chair</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Would
love to see a review of maneuver 13 of the Finals
sequence. In the March Kfactor the center was described
as "should be the middle of the maneuver somewhere in
the ¾ loop portion." While the many outside the US see
it that the loop is centered and the Aresti in the
latest FAI sporting code show the upline being centered.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">A
bit confusing,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Anthony</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Date:
Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:28:00 -0700<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:joncarter60@comcast.net">joncarter60@comcast.net</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] From the Judges Chair</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Hey
guys - we got an excellent suggestion from the
group for last month's article so I thought I
would ask again! Anyone have a burning maneuver or
judging question? Just let me know.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Jon
Carter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Judging
Committee Chairman</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#575757">Sent
via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE
smartphone</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br>
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</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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