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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Matt I
would have came back earlier but this morning I opened the CAD files for my 160
designs to compile some data.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I’m
posting this for others that might be interested.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I’m
finding wing loading, thickness, taper and sweep important factors. My first
160 was 11 lb dry and had a wet loading nearly 29 oz / sq ft. felt heavy in the
air, Thickness = 13% Taper = 2.5:1 Sweep = 8 deg.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The second
one I built was 10 lb with a loading of 26.5 wet. I liked this one.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My
electric version taper = 2.75:1, 13.3 thick and 7.8 sweep. With 5000 batteries
loading was 27.5, which felt heavy. I didn’t like it. With 4500 batteries
loading is 26, OK but still a little heavy, had to fly too fast.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I’m
currently working on a 6 foot E-110 version with an estimated weight between 9
and 9.5 lb for a loading of about 23, taper of 2.75, thickness of 12% and 6-degree
sweep.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>All measurements
are to the fuselage centerline and the sweep was measured at the 25% line.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I don’t
know if I’m in the ballpark with the planned E-110. My gut feeling is high
taper wings can be / should be straighter.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any and
all relevant comments would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>As for the
roll effect with swept wings, I’ve only noticed it using heavy rudder
correcting on off line exits from turnarounds.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>rcmaster199@aol.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, December 08, 2013
8:52 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Wing Sweep Angle?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The
root and tip chords do not have ACs per se, but you know that already. The AC
of a wing panel is located at 25% MAC and everything I've read on the subject
seems in agreement, at least for full scale, so I use that value for my models.
I think that's what Smith is alluding to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The
actual angle I think is relative to the fuse CL...So if the wing is
rectangular, sweep is considered zero by convention (I think) (Ron correct
me if there is no convention on this). If sweep is aft, the angle should be
straight forward to measure or calculate. If sweep is fore, same thing except
the sign is reversed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>For the
model wings I use (much higher root to tip ratios than every one else uses),
sweep at 25% chord is about 20 degrees to the rear. I haven't found it
excessive or insufficient. It doesn't affect the parameters I use for wing
vertical location on the fuse (given a specific dihedral angle). This has been
tested on 6 original designs so far over the years with somewhat variable
sweep angle (a few degrees, maybe as much as 5 degrees delta). The dihedral
effect delta has been nil. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>regads<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Matt<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: J N Hiller <jnhiller@earthlink.net><br>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Sun, Dec 8, 2013 8:04 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wing Sweep Angle?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_0_c06ae939-25c5-422c-aad8-5b16c2ef6cb6"><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Thank you that's exactly what I wanted to know. I've changed it on different<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>airplanes and wanted to use a 'correct' standard reference when listing<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>design parameters. I'm finding some sweep is good more isn't, in my opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>From: <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>[<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5DOn?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On</a> Behalf Of Ryan Smith<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 2:21 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>To: 'General pattern discussion'<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wing Sweep Angle?<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Hi Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>I was always taught to use the aerodynamic center of the root and tip, and<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>project a line down the span of the wing across these two points. It's<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>pretty close to 25% generally; it may be a few percent off, but for the<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>purposes of calculation, it's really close. There are enough variables in<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>the scheme of things to render that exact enough for our purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>I hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Ryan<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>From: <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>[<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf Of J N Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 4:17 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>To: NSRCA Mailing List<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Wing Sweep Angle?<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Question!<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>How dose one measure wing sweep angle on tapered wing panels? Is it located<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>as a percentage of cord?<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Jim Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
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href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
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style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
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href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
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face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre></div>
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