<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Thanks, Jon.<br>
    Good reason to have Lions in the 42% Carden, then. I do believe that
    Scotts have no balance connectors. I'm using Lipos in a 37% Extra
    but they are well wrapped in foam.<br>
    John<br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/31/2013 3:54 PM, Jon Lowe wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:8D0A49AEE5ABF67-1C98-24ABF@webmail-d145.sysops.aol.com"
      type="cite"><font color="black" face="Arial, Helvetica,
        sans-serif" size="3">
        <div><font style="background-color: transparent;" face="Arial,
            Helvetica, sans-serif">Lithium ion (LiIo)&nbsp;cells are more
            rugged than lithium polymer.&nbsp; I won't use lipo receiver
            batteries in a fuel airplane because of the aluminum foil
            tabs that serve as positive and negative terminals.&nbsp; Seen
            too many failures.&nbsp; I used lithium ion batteries from
            Central (NMP) when I flew YS.&nbsp; Never had a failure due to
            the cells themselves.&nbsp; Lithium ions will still burn if
            overcharged, but mechanically are much more rugged.&nbsp; As Jim
            Oddino said, lipos are good for fast discharging.&nbsp; LiIo's
            are great for less demanding current draw, such as
            receiver/servo packs.&nbsp; Even with a regulator, they are still
            lighter than NiMh packs.&nbsp; The LiIo cells sold for RC use are
            identical to those used in most laptop computers, although
            newer ultrathin laptops have started using LiPo's.</font></div>
        <div>&nbsp;</div>
        <div>For a long time, 2 cell Lilo packs came without balance
          plugs.&nbsp; Later ones from NMP do.&nbsp; I recommend balance charging
          2 cell lithium ion packs at least occasionally, because a few
          I've had have gone out of balance.</div>
        <div style="clear: both;"><font color="black" face="Arial,
            Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="black" face="arial"><span
                class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;">Jon</span></font></font></div>
        <div style="color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica;
          font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br>
          From: Scott McHarg <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com">&lt;scmcharg@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
          To: General pattern discussion
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">&lt;nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org&gt;</a><br>
          Sent: Thu, Oct 31, 2013 4:33 pm<br>
          Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LI-IO packs<br>
          <br>
          <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_78b78908-bd6a-4605-8f7e-ab201c2a88d2">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div class="gmail_default" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);
                font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">They came with
                the plane? &nbsp;:)</div>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 4:23 PM,
                John Gayer <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">jgghome@comcast.net</a>&gt;</span>
                wrote:<br>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color:
                  rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px;
                  border-left-style: solid;">No, Lithium-Ion cells
                  appear to be expensive, heavy lipos. both seem to
                  charge to approximately 4.2.<br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery#Charge_and_discharge"
                    target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery#Charge_and_discharge</a><br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery"
                    target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery</a><br>
                  <br>
                  There appears to be a weight and price penalty
                  associated with the litium-ion battery over the
                  lithium-polymer battery with no benefit. Perhaps
                  someone can explain the popularity of lithium-ion?<br>
                  John<br>
                  On 10/31/2013 1:21 PM, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px
                    0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color:
                    rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px;
                    border-left-style: solid;">
                    ---- Daniel Dupont &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:dansy44@gmail.com">dansy44@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<br>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;
                      border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
                      border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
                      So Jim if I understand correctly Lithium-ion cells
                      are basically cheap<br>
                      Lipo&sup1;s?<br>
                      <br>
                      Hum I always believed they were a slightly
                      different technology&#352;.<br>
                      <br>
                      Daniel on MacBook Pro<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      On 10/31/2013, 1:46 PM, "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>"
                      &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>&gt;<br>
                      wrote:<br>
                      <br>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px
                        0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;
                        border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
                        border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style:
                        solid;">
                        ---- Scott McHarg &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com">scmcharg@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:
                          0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;
                          border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
                          border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style:
                          solid;">
                          Morning y'all,<br>
                          <br>
                          I've spoken to a few people about charging
                          Lithium Ion packs but we did<br>
                          not<br>
                          arrive at a definitive answer. &nbsp;I need to
                          understand what the best<br>
                          solution<br>
                          (besides buying another charger) is for my
                          situation.<br>
                          <br>
                          I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about
                          the Cellpro 10XP. &nbsp;Usually,<br>
                          it's me giving the help but I'm not sure what
                          to do here. &nbsp;Here's the<br>
                          scenario:<br>
                          <br>
                          &nbsp; Cellpro 10XP Multi-Chemistry Charger. &nbsp;The
                          User Manual and everything<br>
                          about the charger says that it can charge the
                          ION packs. &nbsp;So, I go to<br>
                          program a preset for this but in the software,
                          there is nothing that<br>
                          says<br>
                          anything about ION packs. &nbsp;There is LiPo, Pb,
                          A123, Ni-Cd, and Nickel<br>
                          Metal. &nbsp;I have some ION 7.4V 5200mah packs
                          that I need to charge and a<br>
                          2600mah pack for the ignition on a 42% Edge
                          540. &nbsp;The packs are made of<br>
                          4<br>
                          cells but are wired so that they are only 2 (2
                          in series, 2 in parallel)<br>
                          cells. &nbsp;As close as I can tell, I should
                          select the LiPo 2sU (2 cell<br>
                          unbalanced) but I don't want to make a
                          mistake. &nbsp;Someone told me that<br>
                          would<br>
                          be OK and another said that if you program the
                          charger by the charger<br>
                          instead of the software, there is an ION
                          setting but I haven't confirmed<br>
                          that yet as it was late last night when I was
                          checking.<br>
                          <br>
                          Anyone have any idea what to do to charge
                          these packs?<br>
                          <br>
                          Thanks,<br>
                          <br>
                          -- <br>
                          *Scott A. McHarg*<br>
                          Sr. Systems Engineer - Infrastructure<br>
                        </blockquote>
                        If they are lithium-ion cells they should be
                        charged to 4.2 volts per<br>
                        cell or 8.4 volts for a 2s pack. &nbsp;Lithium
                        polymer cells are lithium ion<br>
                        and are charged the same. &nbsp;My Cellpro charger
                        charges to 4.204 volts per<br>
                        cell when set for LiPo packs and that is what
                        should be used for Lithium<br>
                        ion. &nbsp;The Lithium ion cells generally have
                        higher internal resistance and<br>
                        therefore can not be discharged or charged at
                        high rates. &nbsp;I use one C<br>
                        max.<br>
                        <br>
                        Jim O<br>
                        _______________________________________________<br>
                        NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
                          target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
                      NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
                        target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
                    </blockquote>
                    The first Li-Ion cells used in the RC industry were
                    packaged in metal cylindrical cans similar to NiCds.
                    &nbsp;Then the packs packaged in flexible plastic sacks
                    arrived for use in powering motors. &nbsp;These came to
                    be referred to as LiPo packs but basically used the
                    same chemistry but also had the advantage of having
                    low internal resistance. &nbsp;Since those early days
                    many other chemistries with different fully charged
                    voltages have arrived and many charger suppliers
                    have tried to cover them as well. &nbsp;The voltages
                    printed on the packs are typically a nominal voltage
                    and might be 7.2, 7;4 or 7.6 volts even though the
                    full charge voltage is 8.4. &nbsp;I suspect the cells
                    referred to here have the metal cans and that is why
                    they are described as Li-Ion. &nbsp;Hope this helps.<br>
                    <br>
                    Jim O<br>
                    <br>
                    _______________________________________________<br>
                    NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
                      target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
                  </blockquote>
                  <br>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
              <br clear="all">
              <div><br>
              </div>
              -- <br>
              <b style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);"><font
                  style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;"
                  size="4">Scott A. McHarg</font></b><br>
              Sr. Systems Engineer - Infrastructure<br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div id="AOLMsgPart_3_78b78908-bd6a-4605-8f7e-ab201c2a88d2"
            style="margin: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
            Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px;
            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
            <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>
</tt></pre>
          </div>
          <!-- end of AOLMsgPart_3_78b78908-bd6a-4605-8f7e-ab201c2a88d2 -->
        </div>
      </font>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>