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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mike, I’ve been doing this a long time too and I agree with your conclusion. I don’t think I’ve ever been to a contest that the best pilots didn’t win.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We sometimes forget that the objective of judging is to align the pilots up in the correct order. Despite all the flaws in the judging system it seems to me that the correct result always happens.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>mike mueller<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:09 AM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>My 50 years of experience in this sport has led me to this conclusion.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> Despite judging issues most of the time the right person wins after all the scores are in.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> A lot of work went into preparation for the Worlds. Judging being a huge part of that. They are the ones who see the flights and are asked to grade them.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> I'd tend to trust them and the system that produced them.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> World Championship competitions are a lot more than a single person and team taking home the trophy. It's a chance for like people from all over the world to share their passion for the sport. No losers in my opinion because everyone gets to experience the spectacle that it is.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Mike Mueller<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Customer Services <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> F3AUnlimited<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Vincebrc <<a href="mailto:vincebrc@gmail.com">vincebrc@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> <br><b>Cc:</b> General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:45 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv8769225603><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>After having the chance to see some raw scores I concluded that judges are very well calibrated. If they keep working like that I am sure the best pilots will win.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>On Aug 20, 2013, at 9:42 PM, Ronald Van Putte <<a href="mailto:vanputter@gmail.com" target="_blank">vanputter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>And then there's the guy with the Vanquish. But, now that I think about it, it's unique too, because his is the only Vanquish there. Never mind.......<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>On Aug 20, 2013, at 9:31 PM, Chuck Hochhalter wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>That would work if they had identical planes, but you have the ALFERMA, asylur, trigantic, galactic a, Each plane unique to its pilot.<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>On Aug 20, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Randy Forbus <<a href="mailto:rforbus@hotmail.com" target="_blank">rforbus@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>They should hide all the contestants from the judges and let them score the flight and not the flyer<br> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=yiv8769225603stopSpelling></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'>From: <a href="mailto:klhoard@hotmail.com" target="_blank">klhoard@hotmail.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:03:54 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Hmmmm. . . . pedigree. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>So, have the Labra-Doodles score the German Shepherds and so forth . . .<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Very interesting. . .<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com" target="_blank" title="rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:57 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>What oftentimes is referred to as Bias is more a Calibration issue that Bias, methinks...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>20 judges from 20 countries who have no actual means of practicing the art of Judging in each others' countries, are bound to score very differently from one another, regardless of what the good book sez.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>One way to counter the calibration (lack of I should say) issue is to have judges with a known pedigree in a team or a pool, similar to how other sports such as Figure Skating do it. The size of the team could be as many as 50, from a variety of countries, that are tasked to judge the various Finals competitions around the world. FAI pays the bill of course. New blood enters when their pedigree is proven<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Matt<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Derek Koopowitz <<a href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com" target="_blank">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</a>><br>To: 'General pattern discussion' <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 11:39 am<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="yiv8769225603ecxAOLMsgPart_2_c661276b-8385-47c2-ac45-bcfdc7cb6422"><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>It is really hard to get all 20 judges to be biased especially when they come from all over… in the prelims, if one looks at the scores, there are 5 judges scoring and if the range is somewhat narrow on a maneuver then I really doubt there is bias or collusion – they are obviously seeing the same thing. None of us were there to see what the conditions were like and based on what I’ve heard they were REALLY challenging… </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>We flew in 25 mph winds at the Nats this year, pretty much down the runway… and I know how challenging that was… I saw MANY good Masters pilots struggle (one’s that finished in the top 4 in Masters) with the box and a LOT of them were going out the box on the left side. All the scores that I gave them were well deserved…</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentColor currentColor'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael S. Harrison<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:21 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>biased amateurs,,,,</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentColor currentColor'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Keith Hoard<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 19, 2013 5:28 PM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>So basically the Team, AMA, sponsors, and various other contributors just spent $50,000 to get scored by a bunch of amateurs. <br><br>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>On Aug 19, 2013, at 17:07, "George Kennie" <<a href="mailto:geobet4evr@gmail.com" target="_blank">geobet4evr@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I think that many of these international judges have been uptown most of the day and are familiar with the atmosphere that they are operating in and it's potential to reward or penalize them for significant discrepancies in their scoring awards.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Possible mental bias exercises: " Let's see now, here comes CPLR, (He's GOOD ! ), this is TBL scoring, I know that all the other judges will grade him highly and if I don't want to stick out like a sore thumb I'd better do likewise"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Think that's too harsh? I don't think so. I know that everybody thinks that I'm a nut case, but I don't care. I scored these guys in Twenty Eleven and I saw 5 pilots who outpointed CPLR and I also witnessed the surprise on his face when they proclaimed him the winner. Am I biased? I don't think so. CPLR is a great guy to talk to. He and I had great conversations regarding force arrangements and I found him to be a wonderful down to earth all around terrific person, but this isn't a personality contest. Your mission is to outpoint your opponents and according to my numbers he didn't do that. Of course you can say that I know absolutely zero about judging, but that's an opinion that would take some amount of verification. I say that my scores were not TBL modified and possibly reflected more accurate raw numbers <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I was convinced that the whole international panel could have been classified as individuals who had met poor certification standards, but could it be possible that TBL influenced the outcome in some way? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Nah!, I think I'm sticking to my original conclusion.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>G.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Stuart Chale <<a href="mailto:schale1@verizon.net" target="_blank">schale1@verizon.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Each Worlds the scoring always always causes me "to raise an eyebrow" I can't say surprises me because we have seen it before. For most flyers the scores seem lower than we would expect. Lower than they would receive at the Nats never mind local contests. Did Joseph really deserve 6's on a half loop turnaround. Did he have 60 degrees of error or fly a half hexagon? Are the Judges that much better than the rest of us that they are seeing the errors that we don't? Or are they upping the bar with an unwritten rule ( 1 point / 5 degrees etc) . Any 10's given out?<br>I know the top fliers are difficult to differentiate until the finals and unknowns and usually it works out that the best flyer wins, I just like to see the same criteria used at all contests.<br><br>Or maybe I am not as good a judge as I think :)<br><br>Stuart C.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div id="yiv8769225603ecxAOLMsgPart_3_c661276b-8385-47c2-ac45-bcfdc7cb6422"><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>