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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is really hard to get all 20 judges to be biased especially when they come from all over… in the prelims, if one looks at the scores, there are 5 judges scoring and if the range is somewhat narrow on a maneuver then I really doubt there is bias or collusion – they are obviously seeing the same thing. None of us were there to see what the conditions were like and based on what I’ve heard they were REALLY challenging… <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We flew in 25 mph winds at the Nats this year, pretty much down the runway… and I know how challenging that was… I saw MANY good Masters pilots struggle (one’s that finished in the top 4 in Masters) with the box and a LOT of them were going out the box on the left side. All the scores that I gave them were well deserved…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael S. Harrison<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:21 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>biased amateurs,,,,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Keith Hoard<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 19, 2013 5:28 PM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>So basically the Team, AMA, sponsors, and various other contributors just spent $50,000 to get scored by a bunch of amateurs. <br><br>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Aug 19, 2013, at 17:07, "George Kennie" <<a href="mailto:geobet4evr@gmail.com">geobet4evr@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I think that many of these international judges have been uptown most of the day and are familiar with the atmosphere that they are operating in and it's potential to reward or penalize them for significant discrepancies in their scoring awards.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Possible mental bias exercises: " Let's see now, here comes CPLR, (He's GOOD ! ), this is TBL scoring, I know that all the other judges will grade him highly and if I don't want to stick out like a sore thumb I'd better do likewise"<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Think that's too harsh? I don't think so. I know that everybody thinks that I'm a nut case, but I don't care. I scored these guys in Twenty Eleven and I saw 5 pilots who outpointed CPLR and I also witnessed the surprise on his face when they proclaimed him the winner. Am I biased? I don't think so. CPLR is a great guy to talk to. He and I had great conversations regarding force arrangements and I found him to be a wonderful down to earth all around terrific person, but this isn't a personality contest. Your mission is to outpoint your opponents and according to my numbers he didn't do that. Of course you can say that I know absolutely zero about judging, but that's an opinion that would take some amount of verification. I say that my scores were not TBL modified and possibly reflected more accurate raw numbers <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I was convinced that the whole international panel could have been classified as individuals who had met poor certification standards, but could it be possible that TBL influenced the outcome in some way? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nah!, I think I'm sticking to my original conclusion.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>G.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Stuart Chale <<a href="mailto:schale1@verizon.net" target="_blank">schale1@verizon.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Each Worlds the scoring always always causes me "to raise an eyebrow" I can't say surprises me because we have seen it before. For most flyers the scores seem lower than we would expect. Lower than they would receive at the Nats never mind local contests. Did Joseph really deserve 6's on a half loop turnaround. Did he have 60 degrees of error or fly a half hexagon? Are the Judges that much better than the rest of us that they are seeing the errors that we don't? Or are they upping the bar with an unwritten rule ( 1 point / 5 degrees etc) . Any 10's given out?<br>I know the top fliers are difficult to differentiate until the finals and unknowns and usually it works out that the best flyer wins, I just like to see the same criteria used at all contests.<br><br>Or maybe I am not as good a judge as I think :)<br><br>Stuart C.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></body></html>