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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sorry, I didn’t intend my comments to be a slam at the individuals judging. I was a scribe at the 2011 WC and the judges I worked with were doing a great job given the rules and constraints and I thought very fair to all the contestants. I just think the whole process is so flawed that there is no way the human eyes and brain can accurately score to the judging criteria. Thus my “the best judges aren’t very good” comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Hansen<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 19, 2013 6:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is this the right time to be complaining about the world judges?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I assume they have internet access and might get wind of these complaints no matter how legit they may be.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think this type of discussion is best left for after the competition is over and maybe should never be discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This isn’t helping our team and may actually hurt them now or in the future because we sound like a bunch whiners and sore losers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The world team knows what they are up against and they volunteered willingly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Let’s let the chips fall where they may.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We will never be able to prevent or statistically mitigate bias.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Many people from other counties are tired of the US seemingly winning everything and that is impossible to overcome.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good luck to team USA.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave Burton<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 19, 2013 7:09 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Maybe it just proves that the best judges aren’t very good.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Keith Hoard<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 19, 2013 5:28 PM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] World F3A contest<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>So basically the Team, AMA, sponsors, and various other contributors just spent $50,000 to get scored by a bunch of amateurs. <br><br>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Aug 19, 2013, at 17:07, "George Kennie" <<a href="mailto:geobet4evr@gmail.com">geobet4evr@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I think that many of these international judges have been uptown most of the day and are familiar with the atmosphere that they are operating in and it's potential to reward or penalize them for significant discrepancies in their scoring awards.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Possible mental bias exercises: " Let's see now, here comes CPLR, (He's GOOD ! ), this is TBL scoring, I know that all the other judges will grade him highly and if I don't want to stick out like a sore thumb I'd better do likewise"<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Think that's too harsh? I don't think so. I know that everybody thinks that I'm a nut case, but I don't care. I scored these guys in Twenty Eleven and I saw 5 pilots who outpointed CPLR and I also witnessed the surprise on his face when they proclaimed him the winner. Am I biased? I don't think so. CPLR is a great guy to talk to. He and I had great conversations regarding force arrangements and I found him to be a wonderful down to earth all around terrific person, but this isn't a personality contest. Your mission is to outpoint your opponents and according to my numbers he didn't do that. Of course you can say that I know absolutely zero about judging, but that's an opinion that would take some amount of verification. I say that my scores were not TBL modified and possibly reflected more accurate raw numbers <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I was convinced that the whole international panel could have been classified as individuals who had met poor certification standards, but could it be possible that TBL influenced the outcome in some way? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nah!, I think I'm sticking to my original conclusion.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>G.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Stuart Chale <<a href="mailto:schale1@verizon.net" target="_blank">schale1@verizon.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Each Worlds the scoring always always causes me "to raise an eyebrow" I can't say surprises me because we have seen it before. For most flyers the scores seem lower than we would expect. Lower than they would receive at the Nats never mind local contests. Did Joseph really deserve 6's on a half loop turnaround. Did he have 60 degrees of error or fly a half hexagon? Are the Judges that much better than the rest of us that they are seeing the errors that we don't? Or are they upping the bar with an unwritten rule ( 1 point / 5 degrees etc) . Any 10's given out?<br>I know the top fliers are difficult to differentiate until the finals and unknowns and usually it works out that the best flyer wins, I just like to see the same criteria used at all contests.<br><br>Or maybe I am not as good a judge as I think :)<br><br>Stuart C.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8705 (20130819) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><br><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8705 (20130819) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8705 (20130819) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>