<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Yep, an accelerated stall.<div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br><div><div>On Mar 20, 2013, at 7:44 PM, Keith Hoard wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div dir="auto"><div>Actually stopping has nothing to do with a stall, it is when the wing exceeds the critical angle of attack. That can happen at very high speeds if the plane is heavy enough or you pull the stick back hard enough. </div><div><br></div><div>Our pattern planes are too lightly Wong loaded to induce a stall at cruise speed. </div><div><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Mar 20, 2013, at 19:17, "Phil S." <<a href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">chuenkan@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<font face="Arial">Jerry's right: if the airplane don't stop forward
motion, it ain't a stall. And our planes don't stop in a snap roll...</font><br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Phil Spelt, KCRC Past President
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA 177 Board Member
(865)435-1476v, (865)604-0541c</pre>
<br>
On 3/20/2013 7:06 PM, Ronald Van Putte wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:913484C0-E3A3-434F-8D5E-921691FFE947@cox.net" type="cite">Yeah! According to Jerry, we don't really do a stall
during our snaps and we're supposed to demonstrate a stall.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ron</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Mar 20, 2013, at 5:59 PM, Jon Lowe wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" color="black">
<div><font style="background-color: transparent;" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK guys, lets end this. Back to
discussing toy airplanes and what constitutes a snap!</font></div>
<div style="clear: both;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="black"><font face="arial" color="black"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;">Jon</span></font></font></div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Bill's Email <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</a>><br>
To: General pattern discussion <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Wed, Mar 20, 2013 5:49 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] What a difference a year makes<br>
<br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_4cfa9aa7-346c-4927-b276-a2a3ef9cdc3c">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">This is where we have a huge
ideological schism. You appear to think that science and data have
political leanings. I do not. Certainly there is biased science, as is
evidenced by the tobacco companies that found smoking to be harmless.
And as a scientist you certainly understand that there is always
disagreement, but one need to look at the preponderance of research and
data when drawing a conclusion. In this instance that body of evidence
comes down squarely in favor of global warming/climate change. To
attempt to dismiss it on a political or ideological basis is less than
what I would expect from a trained scientist.<br>
<br>
FWIW, I agree about the irony of MTBE, as well as the whole host of
other fuel oxygenates, causing unforeseen consequences. Yet I draw a
completely different conclusion. Fuel oxygenates have been
unequivocally proven to reduce emissions and lessen pollution. To say
that the decision to implement their use is flawed because of that
unforeseen consequence to me is not a valid conclusion. Clearly the
issue was improper containment systems which were addressed in the
requirement to replace all USTs with either Plasteel or double-walled
fiberglass. The problem is not MTBE in fuel. The problem is leaking
tanks. The new regulations have resulted in a drastically reduced
number of unauthorized releases.<br>
<br>
On balance I think it can be argued that the environmental damage
caused by MTBE is significantly less that the impact of severe air
pollution. So I guess it is a lesser of two evils argument in a way.
However, the point remains that what was done is far better than having
done nothing. Certainly MTBE has caused significant impact, especially
to the water supplies of particular cities such as Santa Monica. But
again, the widespread and chronic negative effects of air pollution in
my mind still justify that decision.<br>
<br>
I agree that we must always examine science with a critical eye, but at
some point the evidence is clear. Where politics comes into it is when
we try to determine what to do about it. But if we continue to dismiss
science and make people distrust it based on politics or dogma then I
think that is a huge disservice to society. As I have said before. I'm
willing to debate all dat long about what we can or should do about
global climate change, but if we try to address the issue by pretending
it is a hoax then I think we are all in trouble.<br>
<br>
BTW - ice cores are very cool indeed, FROZEN in fact ;~}<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/20/13 3:23 PM, Dave Lockhart wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Bill,</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I can only
claim to be a geologist by education, having spent my career in the
environmental field. And I am honestly envious of your experience with
the Antartic ice cores…very cool stuff.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">There is no
doubt that specific data sets with specific analyses can show not only
increasing temperatures, but even linkage to human activity. Skeptical
Science is well known left leaning website. We can disagree on the
politics.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">If I were
not rather busy (to say the least) at the moment building a 43” long
foamy with contra system at a target weight of 85 grams for ETOC, I’d
dig up a number of links that are neutral or contrary to the specific
topics you (Bill) noted.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">And as I
stated before, I’m not advocating all environmental regulations be
canned, but the big picture and a balance of data and perspectives
should be considered. I spent much of my professional career cleaning
up MTBE, which was forced on the petroleum industry despite warnings it
would do more harm than good. Just one example of a politically driven
knee jerk reaction that despite intentions of helping the environment
ended up harming the environment.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Dave </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentcolor currentcolor; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill's Email<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] What a difference a year
makes</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal">Every good rant deserves a rebuttal.
Here's mine.<br>
<br>
On 3/20/13 1:17 PM, Dave Lockhart wrote:</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">The
reason for that is some of the same “scientists” that (wrongly) touted
global cooling in the 1970s are the same ones now (wrongly) preaching
global warming.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<div class="MsoNormal"><br>
Which ones are those?? Got any examples?? I think you may have a
mistaken impression of the state of scientific thought at the time as
well as today. This is a good graphic.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=43" target="_blank">http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=43</a><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">The simple
change of language from “global warming” to “climate change” should be
proof enough that global warming is not happening. </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">This is not only wrong, but it is kind of
a silly "proof". The main reason that the term has been changed was due
to fact that many deniers made silly comments like "well it snowed here
today, so much for global warming". The more precise term is in fact
global climate change. That is being fueled by the increase in average
global temperatures which are drastically affecting the climate. It is
also worth understanding the difference between climate and weather. <br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">However,
the politicians and greenies that used “global warming” as
justification for bigger government and more government control of the
private sector do not want to lose that traction as the fraud of global
warming is being disproven.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">Again, this so wildly misunderstands the
issue that it is hard to know where to start to respond. It is an
example of the thinking that Al Gore invented global warming to take
away your SUV.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> So they
(the politicians and greenies) are now using “climate change” in a
desperate attempt to tie any naturally occurring climate condition to
human influence.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">No, they are
using climate change for the reason I stated above.<br>
<br>
Here are a few nice graphics for people to look at. <br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php" target="_blank">http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php</a><br>
<br>
I'm sorry, but the inability of any one person (or group of people) to
understand something does not mean that the something is wrong. For
instance, there are still people today who think the Earth is flat.<br>
<br>
Anthropomorphic influence on global warming/climate change is
undeniable. I will grant that there is still much debate about what, if
anything, we can do about it. But to deny its very existence will
render that important debate nearly impossible.<br>
<br>
BTW - for those that wonder. I am a geologist by education and
profession. Way back in 1983 I helped in some of the early research on
the deep ice cores from the Antarctic. This is not a recent science.<br>
<br>
End of Rant for me.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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