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<DIV>You forgot to put “trust fund” in quotes. </DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=vanputter@gmail.com
href="mailto:vanputter@gmail.com">Ronald Van Putte</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:37 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting
Representation</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">Yeah,
kinda like some $ ought go in the U.S. Social Security trust fund and not
the U.S. general fund. <VBG>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ron Van Putte</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:59 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">I'd be for this as well... but we definitely need to
ensure it goes to the F3A program and not into the general FAI fund.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Atwood, Mark <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com"
target=_blank>atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">+1
from me. I could easily see requiring an FAI stamp to fly FAI at local
contests. It would indeed go a long way toward helping us demonstrate
participation, though I think we need to see where that money
goes….<BR><BR><BR>Mark Atwood<BR>Paragon Consulting, Inc. |
President<BR>5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio,
44124<BR>Phone: <A href="tel:440.684.3101%20x102"
value="+14406843101">440.684.3101 x102</A> | Direct: <A
href="tel:440-229-2502" value="+14402292502">440-229-2502</A><BR>Fax: <A
href="tel:440.684.3102" value="+14406843102">440.684.3102</A><BR><A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A>>
| <A href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>www.paragon-inc.com</A><<A
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.paragon-inc.com/</A>><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>On
Mar 13, 2013, at 4:47 PM, "Michael S. Harrison" <<A
href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</A>>>
wrote:<BR><BR>My thoughts on this would be to make this the responsibility
of the USA/FAI community. It would probably require the blessing of
AMA but a way to do this is to require the FAI stamp to fly any AMA
sanctioned competition with FAI as one of the events. At the Nats
require a $50 fee to fly semis and beyond. Typically, anyone that
flies well enough to make the semis is a committed competitor and is willing
and typically understands the need to charge for the privilege of flying at
that level. This would also resolve the issue of number of flyers
committed to the FAI program.<BR><BR>Understandably, because AMA is
overwhelmed by non competition hobbyists and FAI really doesn't earnestly
seek our input and the USA spends far more than anyone else to support FAI,
the powers at AMA have little interest is paying big bucks for F3A,
particularly since the competitors will not support its own program.
It is sad that many competitors that have more than enough money will make
no real effort or even avoid the chance to help in some way.
Therefore, the typical solution would be to make financial needs be met by
fees of some sort.<BR><BR>If I were a non FAI competitor, and I was at one
time, I would be more than happy to see NSRCA support the FAI
program.<BR><BR>In my view it is an across the board
issue.<BR><BR>regards<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>From: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>>]
On Behalf Of Keith Hoard<BR>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:58 PM<BR>To:
General pattern discussion<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting
Representation<BR><BR>Or just charge the lower class guys more and tell them
“Its for your own good” . . .<BR><BR>From: Joe Lachowski<mailto:<A
href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com">jlachow@hotmail.com</A>><BR>Sent:
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:29 PM<BR>To: NSRCA Discussion List<mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation<BR><BR>Hmmm!. Sounds like
another justification for going totally webbased for the Kfactor. Surely,
the mailing saved could cover all or part of the cost?<BR><BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</A>><BR>>
To: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:02:49 -0400<BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation<BR>><BR>> Correct, it's
$50.<BR>><BR>> But we're making this more than it needs to be. We're
talking about $1000/annually that's needed to send a rep to the CIAM
meetings. With our membership that's less than a $1 a person. This should
almost be part of our charter. I realize that AMA pattern has a life outside
of FAI, but AMA Pattern was born from FAI (not the other way around) and
will truly lose it's direction without it. Maybe not immediately, but over
time.<BR>><BR>> Participation in the FAI program is necessary to
continue to get AMA funding to help support our USA team…something that I do
think the AMA should, and will continue to do provided that there is
adequate support. It's almost a separate issue.<BR>><BR>> -M<BR>>
Mark Atwood<BR>> Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President<BR>> 5885
Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124<BR>> Phone:
440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502<BR>> Fax: 440.684.3102<BR>>
<A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A>>
| <A href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>www.paragon-inc.com</A><<A
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.paragon-inc.com</A>><<A
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.paragon-inc.com/</A>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Jon Lowe <<A
href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</A>>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>> The current cost of the FAI stamp is $50. Just call
Colleen Pierce at AMA and she will sign you up!!<BR>> Jon<BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From: Jon Lowe <<A
href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">jonlowe@aol.com</A>>><BR>> To:
nsrca-discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>>><BR>>
Sent: Wed, Mar 13, 2013 9:18 am<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM
Meeting Representation<BR>><BR>> John,<BR>> The last F3A team trial
cost $170 per flier which I beleive was over and above Nats entry. The
number of pilots that sign up for the trial is what AMA uses as part of the
formula to see what teams they will support for World Championships. They
also use performance at previous WC's in the formula. Mark Atwood has the
details. I beleive Mark told me that if Andrew had not made the podium at
the last WC, that we would have fallen below the threshold for AMA support
for this year's WC.<BR>><BR>> I will check with AMA on the cost of the
FAI stamp.<BR>> Jon<BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: John
Fuqua <<A
href="mailto:johnfuqua@embarqmail.com">johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:johnfuqua@embarqmail.com">johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:johnfuqua@embarqmail.com">johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</A>>><BR>>
To: 'General pattern discussion' <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>>><BR>>
Sent: Tue, Mar 12, 2013 8:42 pm<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] CIAM
Meeting Representation<BR>><BR>><BR>> If it's a numbers thing what
if everybody just paid the for an FAI stamp. I<BR>> used to buy one long
ago when I flew in Team selection events. I do not<BR>> think it is very
expensive. Anybody know what it the currently costs?<BR>><BR>><BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>>?>]
On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:12
PM<BR>> To: General pattern discussion<BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] CIAM Meeting Representation<BR>><BR>> We can run
off and vilify the AMA over this, but I think some of the reality<BR>> is
that there are soooooo many niche's in the FAI program that trying
to<BR>> determine how to completely support them all is financially
impractical in<BR>> this day and age. Yes, we're one of the pillars, but
our total<BR>> participation at the FAI level is actually VERY low. I
think a total of 10<BR>> people this past cycle. That in itself is a
problem, but regardless, it<BR>> become difficult for the AMA to support
sending a rep for every FAI program<BR>> that has 10 paying participants.
I just checked.. .we had 11 participants<BR>> in 2012 and 11 in 2010.
Control line scale had about the same.<BR>><BR>> We should strongly
consider trying to work this into the NSRCA budget in<BR>> some way. It's
important to us collectively, regardless of the total number<BR>> that
actually pay for an FAI stamp. They lead the program that we follow,<BR>>
and establish all the rules for our international competitions. It's<BR>>
important that we (the NSRCA) have a voice at the table.<BR>><BR>>
Just my $0.02<BR>><BR>><BR>> Mark Atwood<BR>> Paragon
Consulting, Inc. | President<BR>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130,
Cleveland Ohio, 44124<BR>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct:
440-229-2502<BR>> Fax: 440.684.3102<BR>> <A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A><<A
href="http://paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>http://paragon-inc.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A><<A
href="http://paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>http://paragon-inc.com</A>>?>> |<BR>> <A
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>www.paragon-inc.com</A><<A
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.paragon-inc.com</A>><<A
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.paragon-inc.com/</A>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Derek Koopowitz<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A><<A
href="http://gmail.com/" target=_blank>http://gmail.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A><<A
href="http://gmail.com/" target=_blank>http://gmail.com</A>>?>>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>> Airfare alone is about $1100 and then there is
food/accommodations for 3<BR>> nights, train fare from Zurich to Lausanne
and back... I would estimate at<BR>> least another $800 everything
else.<BR>><BR>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Peter Vogel<BR>>
<<A
href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</A><<A
href="http://gmail.com/" target=_blank>http://gmail.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:vogel.peter@gmail.com">vogel.peter@gmail.com</A><<A
href="http://gmail.com/" target=_blank>http://gmail.com</A>>?>>>
wrote:<BR>> How much would you need?<BR>><BR>> And Ron, I think
that's exactly what it is. It's part of why I voted<BR>> against Bob
Brown, he said as much in his campaign statement...<BR>><BR>>
Peter+<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:53 PM,
Derek Koopowitz<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A><<A
href="http://gmail.com/" target=_blank>http://gmail.com</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">derekkoopowitz@gmail.com</A><<A
href="http://gmail.com/" target=_blank>http://gmail.com</A>>?>>>
wrote:<BR>> That is true, Bill. I was sent a letter by the AMA stating
that travel<BR>> expenses would not be paid for and that I could attend
if I paid for myself<BR>> or the NSRCA paid for me to
attend.<BR>><BR>> I can only believe that this will only further
isolate us (F3A) from the<BR>> rest of the world. Yes, I'm still the rep
to CIAM but face-to-face meetings<BR>> accomplish so much more than
through email. I had built up a great<BR>> relationship with the
movers/shakers in F3A and now I feel that it will be<BR>> in
jeopardy.<BR>><BR>><BR>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Bill's
Email<BR>> <<A
href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</A><<A
href="http://cox.net/" target=_blank>http://cox.net</A>><mailto:<A
href="mailto:silentav8r@cox.net">silentav8r@cox.net</A><<A
href="http://cox.net/" target=_blank>http://cox.net</A>>?>>>
wrote:<BR>> Thought you folks might be interested what is going on in the
soaring side<BR>> of the FAI world. A proposal to condense several
events, soaring being one<BR>> of them, has been submitted. The soaring
community in the US is taking<BR>> notice that AMA is not funding the
individual area reps to go to the<BR>> meeting, so the soaring folks have
decided to try to fund it themselves.<BR>> Here's the
thread:<BR>><BR>> <A
href="http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1"
target=_blank>http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24403409&postcount=1</A><BR>><BR>>
This is the document that has gotten them to do this:<BR>><BR>> <A
href="http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future-cance"
target=_blank>http://lomcovak.cz/wp_eng/f3b/2013/03/f3b-world-championship-in-future-cance</A><BR>>
led/<BR>><BR>> F3A is mentioned, but only in that it should remain as
is. F3M is talked<BR>> about as a target for elimination. Again, this is
a proposal submitted for<BR>> consideration.<BR>><BR>> Thought you
might find it interesting. I recall reading that our US F3A CIAM<BR>> rep
was also told by AMA that they would not fund his travel.<BR>><BR>>
Bill in OC<BR>><BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> NSRCA-discussion
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mailing list<BR>> <A
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<A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
--<BR>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training<BR>> Santa Clara County
Model Aircraft Skypark<BR>> [<A
href="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg"
target=_blank>http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg</A>]<BR>><BR>>
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