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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>How many 3D and heli events can we host at the AMA site each year to keep making money? Most sport flyers no longer fly glo or gas they fly electrics. We don’t need a 1000 acre AMA site for park flyers we need them for the bigger stuff. Most of the year the AMA site is empty. If they don’t want to make it available to the SIGS then the site will dry up.  Park flyers don’t need to drive 100s of miles to fly their planes we and most other SIGS do.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>All the folks flying park flyers at my clubs are older than me (46). I see very few kids and the kids I do see have dads that are into the hobby and most of them don’t last very long. I don’t have any kids but my observations suggest that most dads that are not in the hobby can’t or won’t spend the kind of money needed to get into anything better than a park flyer. Money is the reason why most people fly park flyers. That will never change. Yes the 3D and helis do attract the younger crowd but you don’t need the AMA site for park flyers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The AMA can’t hang their hat on park flyers. Park flyers are a good way into the hobby but aren’t a long term solution for the hard core RC pilot.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Archie Stafford<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 25, 2013 9:45 PM<br><b>To:</b> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>IMAC has been warned. They already lost one day from a few years ago. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also, years ago I would've agreed. Today though the AMA has a lot more park flyers and sport flyers than any other discipline . Most of my club, with 86 members now flies smaller electrics. Many of the younger kids would rather fly foamies than anything. Pattern, IMAC, and scale don't do anything for them. The younger members are just different. 3D and helis are much more exciting to them. Times have changed. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Arch<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone <br><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Ron Hansen <<a href="mailto:rcpilot@wowway.com">rcpilot@wowway.com</a>> <br>Date: <br>To: <a href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net,'General">vicenterc@comcast.net,'General</a> pattern discussion' <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> <br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What about IMAC they have less attendance at the NATS than us. With their attendance I’m surprised the AMA will even give them a week. Not that I’m suggesting they don’t deserve a week. One of the issues I have with the NATS is that Intermediate and Advanced Pilots and those in MASTERS and FAI that don’t make the cut don’t get any more flights than a regular weekend contest. Perhaps more would attend if we offered every pilot 12 guaranteed flights. That would make it more likely that the west coasters would make the long trip to Muncie.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>No one gets hooked on RC by watching someone fly a park flyer. You get hooked by watching someone go crazy with a heli or an IMAC plane or the graceful flying of a pattern plane or the speed/wow factor of a jet or the roar of a 4 engine B-17. These are all endeavors that are not associated with the typical AMA member. If the AMA thinks they can survive without these folks then let them try. What these groups need to do is stop supporting the AMA with their articles, photos, etc. They’ll have nothing to draw the attention of new members. AMA membership will never be what it used to be because kids now a day are so much busier than they used to be and there are so many more thinks competing for their interest. We need to find a financially viable solution for both the NSRCA and the AMA not to mention all the other SIGS. Without the SIGS there would be no AMA.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 25, 2013 6:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Guys it is too early in the week to talk about good drinks. I got to work tomorrow. <br>Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Ronald Van Putte <<a href="mailto:vanputter@gmail.com">vanputter@gmail.com</a>><br>Sender: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:57:02<br>To: General pattern discussion<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Reply-To: General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates<br><br>For those who weren't there, we had several buses take us from the Tullahoma airport about 12 miles to the Jack Daniels' distillery for the "picnic". On the way back, there was a terrible thunderstorm. When I mentioned the storm to some attendee the next day, they said, "What thunderstorm?"<br><br>BTW, what did they call that stuff they served? Was it Lynchburg Lemonade? It tasted wonderful and went down so smooth!<br><br>Ron<br><br>On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:48 PM, John Fuqua wrote:<br><br>> At least that part you remember<br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>> [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ronald Van<br>> Putte<br>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 4:47 PM<br>> To: General pattern discussion<br>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates<br>><br>> The bus ride back from the Jack Daniel's distillery was memorable!<br>><br>> Ron<br>><br>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:12 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote:<br>><br>>> Scott, I think Ron is correct on this one (biting my tongue as I voice<br>> that!) Back then the NSRCA had no input what so ever. Obviously enough<br>> was wrong with the way the AMA ran the event to create a complete boycott of<br>> the nationals in lieu of the NPAC.<br>>><br>>> Peter, has the nats every been in a vacation spot??? Hmmmm.<br>>> Lawrenceville, IL certainly wasn't, and even the Npac in Tullahoma<br>>> wasn't exactly family friendly (although I seem to recall a wicked<br>>> hangover from a very nice tour/picnic at the Jack Daniel's distillary)<br>>> Mark Atwood Paragon Consulting, Inc. | President<br>>> 5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland Ohio, 44124<br>>> Phone: 440.684.3101 x102 | Direct: 440-229-2502<br>>> Fax: 440.684.3102<br>>> mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com<<a href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com">mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</a>> | <br>>> www.paragon-inc.com<<a href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/">http://www.paragon-inc.com/</a>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Scott McHarg<br>> <scmcharg@gmail.com<<a href="mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com">mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> With all due respect to a very nice guy and a guy very involved with what<br>> goes on, I do not necessarily agree with your reason being over. The NSRCA<br>> does not have much say on how it is run at all. I will admit that they, at<br>> the very least, listen to our concerns now but the AMA runs the show.<br>>><br>>><br>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Ronald Van Putte<br>> <vanputter@gmail.com<<a href="mailto:vanputter@gmail.com">mailto:vanputter@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>>> We had N-PAC because AMA refused to permit NSRCA to have any say on how<br>> the Nats were run. That reason is over. Now we have to compete for Nats<br>> time with other SIGs. In my opinion, the best way to do that is to increase<br>> the number of Nats competitors in R/C Aerobatics.<br>>><br>>> Ron<br>>><br>>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 3:19 PM, Scott McHarg wrote:<br>>><br>>> We also used to have NPAC. Now, we have to do what we can within the<br>> framework of the AMA and their time restraints. It is very unfortunate.<br>>><br>>><br>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Charlie Rock<br>> <charlierock@me.com<<a href="mailto:charlierock@me.com">mailto:charlierock@me.com</a>>> wrote:<br>>> And that is very very sad to hear!!! Charlie<br>>><br>>> "When people are afraid of a government that is - Tyranny; And a<br>> government that is afraid of the people that is - Liberty."<br>> Thomas Jefferson<br>>><br>>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 3:12 PM, Archie Stafford<br>> <astafford@md.metrocast.net<<a href="mailto:astafford@md.metrocast.net">mailto:astafford@md.metrocast.net</a>>> wrote:<br>>><br>>><br>>> I completely agree Ron but those days are gone. The AMA is no longer<br>>> focused on competition like it used to be<br>>><br>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy ST III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone<br>>><br>>><br>>> -------- Original message --------<br>>> From: Ronald Van Putte<br>>> <vanputter@gmail.com<<a href="mailto:vanputter@gmail.com">mailto:vanputter@gmail.com</a>>><br>>> Date:<br>>> To: General pattern discussion<br>>> <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org%3cmailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.%0b">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<br></a>>> org>><br>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates<br>>><br>>><br>>> I know that "suck" and "blow" are opposites, but that situation both<br>> "sucks" and "blows". We used to have a designated "checkin/practice" day<br>> and a "rain" day.<br>>><br>>> Ron<br>>><br>>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 2:42 PM, Archie Stafford wrote:<br>>><br>>><br>>> Mike,<br>>><br>>> The AMA has shortened the total NATS period this year, so you read that<br>> correct. Fortunately, our actual flying days were not changed. Soaring went<br>> from 13 days to 6 days this year. In previous years, it was never truly our<br>> day, but it worked out that way as a day of setup for the workers. We have<br>> never had a true practice day, but since the sites were free, they were<br>> available. Sites 1 and 4 may be available, but that remains to be seen.<br>> Once Pylon is done then we will be able to use the sites. Think of it as<br>> how the others sites have worked on Saturdays in previous years.<br>>><br>>> Archie<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> On Mon 02/25/13 3:31 PM , mike mueller<br>> mups1953@yahoo.com<<a href="mailto:mups1953@yahoo.com">mailto:mups1953@yahoo.com</a>> sent:<br>>><br>>> I have a question too.<br>>> On the AMA site they show RC Pylon still being there on the Sunday the<br>>> 21st. If that's the case will it stop us from practicing on that day?<br>>> Thanks, Mike<br>>><br>>> --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Bob Kane wrote:<br>>><br>>> From: Bob Kane<br>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates<br>>> To: "General pattern discussion"<br>>> Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 2:23 PM<br>>><br>>> I sent a message on facebook, but here is my quesiton again via "real"<br>> email . . . .<br>>><br>>> Am I set to work site 1 again this year? I am not going to try and<br>> compete and work as I did last year, it did not work out very well.<br>>><br>>> Thanks.<br>>><br>>> Bob Kane<br>>> getterflash@yahoo.com<<a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com</a>><br>>> ________________________________<br>>> From: Archie Stafford<br>>> To: General pattern discussion<br>>> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:03 AM<br>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2013 NATS dates<br>>><br>>> Just settled dates here at the NATS planning meeting. The official dates<br>> are now set and I want to get it out early.<br>>><br>>> July 21-25.<br>>> Check-In is July 21.<br>>> Intermediate & Advanced flying July 22-24 Masters and FAI Prelims July<br>>> 22-24 Masters & FAI finals July 25<br>>><br>>> Fees are the same as last year.<br>>> Early entry deadline: June 24<br>>> Late deadline: July 8<br>>><br>>> Fees will once again double after June 24. Refunds can be issued up to 24<br>> hours prior to start, minus the AMA part, so if you register early and have<br>> to change, you can get your NSRCA fees back.<br>>><br>>> Will update with more information later, but wanted to get the dates out<br>> for planning purposes.<br>>><br>>> Arch<br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org%3chttp://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/co">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/co</a><br>>> <a href="mailto:mpose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">mpose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org%3chttp://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/co">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<http://us.mc1247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/co</a><br>>> <a href="mailto:mpose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">mpose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org%3cmailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o</a><br>>> rg> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org%3cmailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o</a><br>>> rg> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org%3cmailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o</a><br>>> rg> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> --<br>>> Scott A. McHarg<br>>> Sr. Systems Engineer - Infrastructure<br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org%3cmailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o</a><br>>> rg> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org%3cmailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o</a><br>>> rg> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> --<br>>> Scott A. McHarg<br>>> Sr. Systems Engineer - Infrastructure<br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org%3cmailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o</a><br>>> rg> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8049 (20130225) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8049 (20130225) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><br><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8050 (20130225) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8050 (20130225) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8050 (20130225) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8050 (20130225) __________<br><br>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.<br><br><a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>