<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I agree with previous posters about being able to show the judges a start and finish to the radius. I spent time watching that very thing at the Worlds last year...all the top flyers had very clear transitions without any jerks. On the other hand, the flyers who were so smooth as to almost make the transition to a radius disappear didn't score as well. </div><div>It is hard to describe, but it almost looks as if the pilot is adding just enough pitch input so the plane looks like it is starting something, but not enough pitch to actually change the trajectory of the CG in that fraction of a second. Between those two actions they hit the ideal mix between "jerk" and "nothing".</div><div><br></div><div>John<br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:22 PM, Chuck Hochhalter <<a href="mailto:cahochhalter@yahoo.com">cahochhalter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div>I feel many of the new "guidelines" for judging try and fix issues we don't have and make it even harder to give an accurate score. Now we have included a percentage value of my impression on my opinion as to wether it was smooth and graceful. I feel that to fly the maneuver properly and score a geometric perfect score it inherently will be smooth, thusly graceful.</div><div><br></div><div>Chuck<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Feb 25, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Ronald Van Putte <<a href="mailto:vanputter@gmail.com">vanputter@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Yes, and you can see competitors, as they improve, go from "jerking" the radii, to "oozing" in and out of radii and, finally, getting constant radii.<div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br><div><div>On Feb 25, 2013, at 11:36 AM, Bob Kane wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>One of my observations from watching the top competitors is their ability to "hit" a line after radius. I'm not sure how to describe it, but you know when the radius ends and the line starts.</span></div><div></div><div> </div><div>Bob Kane<br><a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">getterflash@yahoo.com</a><br></div> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> J N Hiller <<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, February 25, 2013
11:52 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging question for the experts<br> </font> </div> <br>
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<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal"><span class="yiv2088665868EmailStyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">As long as
thin is an open discussion, where do we draw the line between easing into and
out of a radius? While appearing very smooth, may in fact be a variation from
constant radius. Slow flight also tends to mask the start and stop of radiuses,
which need to be at least noticeable to define geometry. </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal"><span class="yiv2088665868EmailStyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Jim</span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal"><span class="yiv2088665868EmailStyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal"><span class="yiv2088665868EmailStyle20"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><font size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: black;">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<b><span style="
font-weight:bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b><a href="mailto:flyintexan@att.net">flyintexan@att.net</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, February 25, 2013
5:24 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging question for the experts</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><font size="3" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">How soon before we hire
figure skating judges?<br>
<br>
-Mark<br>
Sent from my phone.</span></font><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">
</span></font></div><div id="yiv2088665868htc_header"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial">----- Reply message -----<br>
From: "Andre Bouchard" <<a href="mailto:txf3a@entouch.net">txf3a@entouch.net</a>><br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging question for the experts<br>
Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2013 11:14 PM<br>
<br style="">
<br style="">
</font></div><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial">
</font><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></font>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;"> </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<span style="">
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><span class="yiv2088665868apple-style-span"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;">Don,</span></font></span><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<span style="">
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;"><br style="">
<br style="">
</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<span style="">
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><span class="yiv2088665868apple-style-span"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;">This question of course relates to the <span style=""></span></span></font></span><span class="yiv2088665868apple-style-span"><font size="4" color="black" face="ArialMT"><span style="font-size: 12.5pt; font-family: ArialMT; color: black;">Annex 5B </span></font></span><span class="yiv2088665868apple-style-span"><font size="4" color="black"><span style="font-size:12.5pt;color:black;">–</span></font></span><span class="yiv2088665868apple-style-span"><font size="4" color="black" face="ArialMT"><span style="font-size: 12.5pt; font-family: ArialMT; color: black;"> F3 R/C Aerobatic
Power Model Aircraft Manoeuvre Execution Guide, Section 5B.9...</span></font></span><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<div title="Page 36">
<div style="margin-left:.5in;"><font size="2" color="black" face="ArialMT"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: ArialMT; color: black;">5B.9 </span></font><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; font-weight: bold;">SMOOTHNESS AND GRACEFULNESS OF THE MANOEUVRE </span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left:.5in;"><font size="2" color="black" face="ArialMT"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: ArialMT; color: black;">"Concerns the
harmonic appearance of an entire manoeuvre. Ie maintaining a constant flight
speed throughout the various manoeuvre components, like in climbing and
descending sections contributes significantly to smoothness and gracefulness.
Radii performed very tight or very loose, though being of equal size within one
manoeuvre may be subject for downgrading Smoothness and Gracefulness."</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left:.5in;"><span style=""><span class="yiv2088665868apple-style-span"><font size="4" color="black" face="ArialMT"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: ArialMT; color: black;">If the radii are very
abrupt the maneuver would not be "smooth and graceful."
Similarly, if the radii are very loose the maneuver elements would likely
not be well defined (not graceful?). I think "very" is the key
word - beyond expectation, not normally seen, etc. Extending that
thought, I think this would be a uncommon downgrade.</span></font></span></span><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left:.5in;"><span class="yiv2088665868apple-style-span"><font size="3" color="black" face="ArialMT"><span style=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: ArialMT; color: black;">Stating the obvious
here...there are no technical criteria for what constitutes "very tight or
very loose" radii. The criteria are subjective.</span></span></font></span><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left:.5in;"><span class="yiv2088665868apple-style-span"><font size="3" color="black" face="ArialMT"><span style=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: ArialMT; color: black;">Regards,</span></span></font></span><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin-left:.5in;"><span class="yiv2088665868apple-style-span"><font size="3" color="black" face="ArialMT"><span style=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: ArialMT; color: black;">Andre Bouchard</span></span></font></span><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;"> </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;"> </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black;"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in;"><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;"><br>
On Feb 24, 2013, at 9:13 PM, <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:tocdon@netscape.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:tocdon@netscape.net">tocdon@netscape.net</a>
wrote:</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color:black;
"></span></font></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;
margin-left:1.0in;"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">A question on radius
judging. Tight radius (or loose radius) manevuer segments are subject to
downgrade in FAI. What constitutes a tight radius? Physically tight
(in feet, for example), or tight (fast speed through the radius giving the
impression that the plane is pulling excessive g's, however that is
interpreted). A slow flying radius could be extremely tight, for
example the last radius at the bottom of the triangle loop (135
degree pull) or figure Z.</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;
margin-left:1.0in;"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Best regards,</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;
margin-left:1.0in;"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Don</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv2088665868MsoNormal" style="margin-right:.5in;
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