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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I'm not
too old to remember what it was like before the NSRCA. If you traveled very far
you could find yourself competing in an unfamiliar event.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The NSRCA
has matured since those early days and contributed greatly to standardized
judging, rule proposal screening and national unity. YES the NSRCA has value
well beyond the K-Factor.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Yes it
would be nice to get the rest of the story from the AMA contest board as to why
safety related rules were voted down. Maybe I missed it but at this point I can
only guess. I could probably ask directly and get a reply but I trust they had
a valid reason.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I also
trust our BOD to lead the NSRCA on my behalf without having to explain, discuss
or endlessly argue details in an open forum. Open discussed can be extremely
time consuming with limited productivity. There is no making everyone happy especially
if their' participation is hit and miss continuously requiring covering old
ground.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Those of
us that wish to be involved in the details can get actively involved.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Enough. On
to the shop!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>NSRCA 376<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jon Lowe<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, December 12, 2012
7:33 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Executive Board voting</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I have
never intentionally attacked anyone, either on this forum or on the discussions
over on RCU. I've asked questions, seeking answers. I tend to be
direct in my emails and they may appear to be harsh, probably comes from my
background dealing with the military. I have not accused anyone of having
an agenda, nor do I think anyone on the board does. If you or anyone
else thinks that is what I've implied or am implying, I'm sorry.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I think
after seeing what you said here, seeing the complete NSRCA survey results, and
several private emails and phone calls, that there is a general apathy in NSRCA
which seems to have its roots in people questioning the relevancy of the
organization. If NSRCA is not relevant and doesn't provide added value to
the membership, we can turn the sequences back over to the AMA and
disband. I'd like to see NSRCA viewed as returning far more in value to the
membership than the few dollars they invest each year. A question we all
need to constantly ask ourselves is "If someone asks me why I should join
the NSRCA, what do I tell them?"<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The
K-Factor is a recurring theme in the survey and people I have talked to in terms
of value to the members. I would like to congratulate Scott McHarg and
the rest of the K-Factor crew on the December issue of the K-Factor.
I everyone reading this hasn't looked at it, it has a lot of how-to in
it. Good job!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I
didn't mean to imply that the AMA competition board should not have been much
more transparent during the rules proposal process. They should
have been, and that communication is one thing I'd work on to improve if
elected. I am an advocate of follow-up, follow-up, follow-up. And
if we are going to ask others to be transparent to us, then we need to walk the
talk.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Again,
sorry if I offended anyone. I was asking questions that I didn't see
anyone else asking, and I wanted to know the answers. I hope the
membership will see this continuing discussion as constructive, and offer their
thoughts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=apple-style-span><font
size=4 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Jon</span></font></span><font color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: John Gayer <jgghome@comcast.net><br>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:16 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Executive Board voting<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_410becb9-238a-4d88-9b3f-12efaed7704a">
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>[quote]ORIGINAL:
jonlowe<br>
Transparency. I think the spilled milk has been discussed enough, from the AMA
rules change proposal process by the board, to the bylaws, to the aborted
officer election.<br>
[/quote]<br>
<br>
<br>
I certainly agree that there were processes that could have been improved
relative to the bylaw changes and officer election. However to call them
aborted and imply in various other posts that the board has a hidden
agenda is over the top. Clearly the board could have and should have done a
better job on the elections and, for that matter, the treasurer's audit but
there was no intent to hoodwink or put one over on the membership. We are
nothing but a bunch of volunteers with a love of pattern. When the call went
out two years ago, noone else stood up and said "I want to run for
office". Various coercions were applied to get Ed Alt to run for President
and Scott McHarg to run for Secretary.I will admit to calling Derek and asking
if they had found a Treasurer in mid-December. When he said yes, I thanked him
and was about to hang up when he said "you". Later that year Ed Alt
resigned due to the press of work and Jim Quinn who was then VP reluctantly
assumed the reins of president. Good choice or not, there was noone else
champing at the bit to take the job and the board gratefully accepted Jim as
president. I didn't see anyone jumping up and down to get on the board at that
time or, for that matter, now. Kind of wonder where all the current contrarians
were then. Jon, I guess you were still recovering from your retirement so that
excuses you but there are plenty of others making derogatory comments about the
actions of the current board. Where are you when we need help? Apparently
looking the other way. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Right now John
Bruml has been trying to get out of being the Advertising Manager almost as
long as I’ve been on the board. Where are those clamoring to help out?
Apparently using their energies to bash those who did throw their hat in.<br>
<br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>LOWE>>Oh,
and about the Contest Board. Their process is well documented by the AMA
and follows a strict time table. We all had the opportunity to provide
inputs and cross proposals after the initial vote. We also had the
opportunity to talk to the CB members, and I did talk to a couple of
them. The CB members are mostly active members of the pattern community,
are well known, and are charted by the AMA, not the NSRCA, to look at rules
proposals to benefit all AMA participants, not just NSRCA members. Problems
with the NSRCA proposals were hashed out here, and the submitters had the
opportunity to fix issues during the cross proposal process. How much
follow-up contact did the NSRCA board initiate with the CB during the
process? Were any cross proposals submitted?<<LOWE<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Jon,
this seems to have provided the impetus for your presidential campaign. I can
only say that the NSRCA Rules committee operated openly, if with a late start,
and solicited input from the membership on RCU and this list(and outside the
membership as well), ran a survey, modified proposals to meet objections and
finally submitted proposals to the contest board. More open you cannot get. I
find it fascinating that to you, the NSRCA board must be open and direct with
its membership(as it should) but when dealing with the contest board we are
expected to dig, pry and canvas the board members in an effort to find out how
our proposals are doing and what objections might have been raised. Why is the
same openness not required in both cases in your mind?? While it is clear in
the published process that cross-proposals could be submitted within a window,
we had no way of knowing which or what part of our proposals were causing
difficulty. There was no contact initiated by the contest board. Adding insult
to injury, there was no “report out” published, listing the pro and con votes
by district and any discussed objections. As I have said before, I have
no more idea what it takes to get a proposal passed through the CB then I did a
year ago before the NSRCA rules committee formed. How do you explain the
dichotomy between your views of the contest board and the NSRCA board?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Relative
to the Nats, it is clear to everyone on the board that the Nats are in the
control of the AMA which has been true ever since NPAC went away. We, the
board, present a candidate to the AMA, who has always been accepted. After that
we lose any control. Although since I’ve been on the board, there have been
various problems at the Nats which many blame on the NSRCA not the AMA. Arch
has been good about keeping us in the loop but he makes it clear who he reports
to.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>He and previous EDs and the AMA
staff have been great about providing logistic support for the banquet, ice
cream social, etc. However there is no question about the ED having two bosses,
AMA is it. The NSRCA is responsible for using the funds collected by the AMA on
our behalf to purchase the necessary scoring equipment and paying the volunteer
staff what we can. This is never enough to even cover their expenses at the
Nats much less travel. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>John
Gayer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>NSRCA
Treasurer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_410becb9-238a-4d88-9b3f-12efaed7704a">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black
face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre></div>
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