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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I totally agree with all you have said. NSRCA is critical to
our survival. The only reason there is some contention here is because there
are those who care. If Jon was harse, he has recognized that, so good for
him. It takes a bit of character to try to rectify issues like that. I also
have been around long enough to know how valuable that NSRCA is. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> Mike <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>J N
Hiller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Executive Board voting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I'm
not too old to remember what it was like before the NSRCA. If you traveled very
far you could find yourself competing in an unfamiliar event.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The
NSRCA has matured since those early days and contributed greatly to
standardized judging, rule proposal screening and national unity. YES the NSRCA
has value well beyond the K-Factor.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Yes
it would be nice to get the rest of the story from the AMA contest board as to
why safety related rules were voted down. Maybe I missed it but at this point I
can only guess. I could probably ask directly and get a reply but I trust they
had a valid reason.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I
also trust our BOD to lead the NSRCA on my behalf without having to explain,
discuss or endlessly argue details in an open forum. Open discussed can be
extremely time consuming with limited productivity. There is no making everyone
happy especially if their' participation is hit and miss continuously requiring
covering old ground.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Those
of us that wish to be involved in the details can get actively involved.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Enough.
On to the shop!<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Jim
Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NSRCA
376<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jon Lowe<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 12, 2012 7:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Executive Board voting</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>I have never intentionally attacked anyone, either on this forum
or on the discussions over on RCU. I've asked questions, seeking
answers. I tend to be direct in my emails and they may appear to be
harsh, probably comes from my background dealing with the military. I
have not accused anyone of having an agenda, nor do I think anyone on the board
does. If you or anyone else thinks that is what I've
implied or am implying, I'm sorry.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>I think after seeing what you said here, seeing the complete NSRCA
survey results, and several private emails and phone calls, that there is a
general apathy in NSRCA which seems to have its roots in people questioning the
relevancy of the organization. If NSRCA is not relevant and doesn't
provide added value to the membership, we can turn the sequences back over to
the AMA and disband. I'd like to see NSRCA viewed as returning far more
in value to the membership than the few dollars they invest each year. A
question we all need to constantly ask ourselves is "If someone asks me
why I should join the NSRCA, what do I tell them?"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>The K-Factor is a recurring theme in the survey and people I have
talked to in terms of value to the members. I would like to congratulate
Scott McHarg and the rest of the K-Factor crew on the December issue of
the K-Factor. I everyone reading this hasn't looked at it, it has a lot
of how-to in it. Good job!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>I didn't mean to imply that the AMA competition board should not
have been much more transparent during the rules proposal process. They
should have been, and that communication is one thing I'd work on to
improve if elected. I am an advocate of follow-up, follow-up, follow-up.
And if we are going to ask others to be transparent to us, then we need to walk
the talk.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Again, sorry if I offended anyone. I was asking questions
that I didn't see anyone else asking, and I wanted to know the answers. I
hope the membership will see this continuing discussion as constructive, and
offer their thoughts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=apple-style-span><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Jon</span></span><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: John Gayer <jgghome@comcast.net><br>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:16 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Executive Board voting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_410becb9-238a-4d88-9b3f-12efaed7704a">
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>[quote]ORIGINAL: jonlowe<br>
Transparency. I think the spilled milk has been discussed enough, from the AMA
rules change proposal process by the board, to the bylaws, to the aborted
officer election.<br>
[/quote]<br>
<br>
<br>
I certainly agree that there were processes that could have been improved
relative to the bylaw changes and officer election. However to call them
aborted and imply in various other posts that the board has a hidden
agenda is over the top. Clearly the board could have and should have done a
better job on the elections and, for that matter, the treasurer's audit but
there was no intent to hoodwink or put one over on the membership. We are
nothing but a bunch of volunteers with a love of pattern. When the call went
out two years ago, noone else stood up and said "I want to run for
office". Various coercions were applied to get Ed Alt to run for President
and Scott McHarg to run for Secretary.I will admit to calling Derek and asking
if they had found a Treasurer in mid-December. When he said yes, I thanked him
and was about to hang up when he said "you". Later that year Ed Alt
resigned due to the press of work and Jim Quinn who was then VP reluctantly
assumed the reins of president. Good choice or not, there was noone else
champing at the bit to take the job and the board gratefully accepted Jim as
president. I didn't see anyone jumping up and down to get on the board at that
time or, for that matter, now. Kind of wonder where all the current contrarians
were then. Jon, I guess you were still recovering from your retirement so that
excuses you but there are plenty of others making derogatory comments about the
actions of the current board. Where are you when we need help? Apparently
looking the other way. Right now John Bruml has been trying to get out of
being the Advertising Manager almost as long as I’ve been on the board. Where
are those clamoring to help out? Apparently using their energies to bash those
who did throw their hat in.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>LOWE>>Oh, and about the Contest
Board. Their process is well documented by the AMA and follows a strict
time table. We all had the opportunity to provide inputs and cross
proposals after the initial vote. We also had the opportunity to talk to
the CB members, and I did talk to a couple of them. The CB members are
mostly active members of the pattern community, are well known, and are charted
by the AMA, not the NSRCA, to look at rules proposals to benefit all AMA
participants, not just NSRCA members. Problems with the NSRCA proposals
were hashed out here, and the submitters had the opportunity to fix issues
during the cross proposal process. How much follow-up contact did
the NSRCA board initiate with the CB during the process? Were any
cross proposals submitted?<<LOWE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Jon, this seems to have provided
the impetus for your presidential campaign. I can only say that the NSRCA Rules
committee operated openly, if with a late start, and solicited input from the
membership on RCU and this list(and outside the membership as well), ran a
survey, modified proposals to meet objections and finally submitted proposals
to the contest board. More open you cannot get. I find it fascinating that to
you, the NSRCA board must be open and direct with its membership(as it should)
but when dealing with the contest board we are expected to dig, pry and canvas
the board members in an effort to find out how our proposals are doing and what
objections might have been raised. Why is the same openness not required in
both cases in your mind?? While it is clear in the published process that
cross-proposals could be submitted within a window, we had no way of knowing
which or what part of our proposals were causing difficulty. There was no
contact initiated by the contest board. Adding insult to injury, there was no
“report out” published, listing the pro and con votes by district and any
discussed objections. As I have said before, I have no more idea what it takes
to get a proposal passed through the CB then I did a year ago before the NSRCA
rules committee formed. How do you explain the dichotomy between your views of
the contest board and the NSRCA board?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Relative to the Nats, it is clear
to everyone on the board that the Nats are in the control of the AMA which has
been true ever since NPAC went away. We, the board, present a candidate to the
AMA, who has always been accepted. After that we lose any control. Although
since I’ve been on the board, there have been various problems at the Nats
which many blame on the NSRCA not the AMA. Arch has been good about keeping us
in the loop but he makes it clear who he reports to. He and previous EDs and
the AMA staff have been great about providing logistic support for the banquet,
ice cream social, etc. However there is no question about the ED having two bosses,
AMA is it. The NSRCA is responsible for using the funds collected by the AMA on
our behalf to purchase the necessary scoring equipment and paying the volunteer
staff what we can. This is never enough to even cover their expenses at the
Nats much less travel. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>John Gayer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>NSRCA Treasurer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<pre style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_410becb9-238a-4d88-9b3f-12efaed7704a"><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre></div>
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