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<DIV>Du-oh! Should have thought of that.</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=khoard@gmail.com
href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">Keith Hoard</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 07, 2012 8:19 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Going Electric - Battery
Questions</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV>If you go with 40C batteries, just add a couple head shims to the ESC.
<BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Dec 7, 2012, at 19:04, Ed Alt <<A
href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">ed_alt@hotmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
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<DIV>Assuming that you’re not discussing weighing the airplane for rules
compliance, a higher nitro percentage for a given volume of glow fuel
definitely does increase the weight of that volume of fuel, i.e., a heavier
takeoff weight.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ed</DIV>
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<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=chuenkan@comcast.net
href="mailto:chuenkan@comcast.net">PhilS.</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 07, 2012 7:44 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Going Electric - Battery
Questions</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><FONT
face=Arial>Sorry, Verne, more Nitro doesn't cost us more weight.
;-{)</FONT><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">Phil Spelt, KCRC President
AMA 1294 Scientific Leader Member
SPA 177 Board Member
(865)435-1476v, (865)604-0541c</PRE><BR>On 12/7/2012 7:15 PM, Verne Koester
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:006f01cdd4d9$29fbec20$7df3c460$@twmi.rr.com
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Larry, 20C
is 10% nitro, 40C is 40% nitro. Like nitro, more C is more weight as well in
most cases. </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">I fly
Masters with 20C batteries and have my throttle governed back to make it
easier to manage the excess power. I started last season with 25C batteries
and had to govern it back even more. Using 40C batteries would be like
sticking a YS 170 on a 110-size plane while probably putting you over the
weight limit.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Verne</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Larry Diamond<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 07, 2012
6:18 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Going Electric - Battery Questions</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Interesting point... I don't understand how changing
from 20C to 40C pack makes a difference using the same Motor and ESC combo.
If it's battery heat, my electronics background would tell me the pack is
probably being dicharged too deep. Not good for the life of a
battery.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I suspect the result of not
changing the Motor/ESC and only changing the battery will reult in a shorter
battery life; and, over loading the power plant which will probably result
in damaging the ESC and/or the Motor.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I could be wrong, cause I
really have no experience with electric power set ups in planes. I just
don't understand the logic going from 20C to 40C and the result being "too
hot for intermediate".</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">It wouldn't surprise me to see
Masters or FAI having a higher power set up, like 3,500 to 4,000+ watts.
Then depending on the max current draw, 40C may make
sense.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">My set up will be about 2,700
to 3,000 watts based on specs... It may not be sufficient for Masters or
FAI.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Perhaps this will turn out to
be a good constructive discussion for a number of people like me, but I'm
curious as to other opinions who have practicle knowledge.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Larry Diamond</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Patrick Harris <<A
href="mailto:harris7148@gmail.com">harris7148@gmail.com</A>><BR><B>To:</B>
General pattern discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>>
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 7, 2012 2:02 PM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Going Electric - Battery Questions</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV id=yiv1745728499>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Larry,</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">You
have received all good advice. One thing to keep in mind, is you are not
going to be able to fly two full sequences with pretty much any setup. With
the Himax in a Monolog flying Intermediate, 20C's are going to be perfect.
With 20C's and good throttle management you are going to be able to fly the
full Intermediate and maybe four or five more maneuvers. If you go up to
40C, you will find the Himax way to hot for Intermediate, and you won't add
that much flying time. </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Another thing about the Himax is it really needs an
aggressive throttle curve on the bottom. If you just fly it out of the box
it will have zip for low end and nuts for high end all at about mid
throttle. On the low end, you will just keep pushing and pushing and nothing
seems to happen until you hit mid throttle and it will go nuts. The best
throttle curve on my Himax looks like a snake. It ramps up really fast on
the low end, tappers off at mid throttle and then heads back up on the high
end, but you need to work it out for your set up. Trust me, spending a good
amount of time getting this right is going to pay big dividends. If you
don't, your uplines are going to be way too hot.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Hey
Larry,<BR><BR>As everyone is telling you, the BIG difference between what
you're proposing and what you're accustomed to with Glg to below is that
you'll fly 90% of your sequence at half throttle. Not figuratively
half throttle... but literally half, or below. Even a vertical upline
does not need full motor on these setups. Flying intermediate
even less so. Also, at full throttle you'll likely only pull
about 75amps, so even 15C batteries would get the job done, but I would
stick with 20 and higher.<BR><BR><BR>Mark Atwood<BR>Paragon Consulting,
Inc. | President<BR>5885 Landerbrook Drive Suite 130, Cleveland
Ohio, 44124<BR>Phone: <SPAN class=MsoHyperlink>440.684.3101
x102</SPAN> | Fax: <SPAN
class=MsoHyperlink>440.684.3102</SPAN><BR><A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com"
target=_blank>mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A><mailto:<A
href="mailto:mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com"
target=_blank>mark.atwood@paragon-inc.com</A>> | <A
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.paragon-inc.com/</A><<A
href="http://www.paragon-inc.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.paragon-inc.com/</A>><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>On Dec
7, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Larry Diamond wrote:<BR><BR>OK, play nice... Never
dealt with electrics before... I could be way off base, but here is a stab
at it...<BR><BR>Is my math flawed?<BR><BR>Motor - Himax 6330-210 F3A Motor
(210KV)<BR>ESC - Phoenix Ice 80HV - New V2 Version<BR>Battery 10s -
37VDC<BR><BR>Plane - 2M Monolog<BR><BR>Max power range is about ~2,700 to
~3,000 watts with this set up...<BR><BR>Calculated Battery Discharge Rate =
80Amps (ESC rating) divided by 3,500mAh (battery capacity) =
22.9C<BR><BR>Based on this math I suspect that a 30C dicharge rate is good
on paper... additional discharge performane = $$$ and I don't want to spend
money on battery performance I don't need...<BR><BR>Class -
Intermediate<BR><BR>What is the recommended battery capacity and discharge
rate...?<BR><BR>I understand the many variables associated with the answer
like, prop size, temps, wind, throttle control, yada, yada, yada...<BR><BR>I
would like to fly the Intermediate sequence a couple time without having to
refuel electrons...<BR><BR>Larry
Diamond<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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