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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I don't know what caused Charlie's failure, we've
discussed possibilities - obviously forces occurred that were beyond what the
structure could handle.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Torque & precession have been with us since we stuck
engines & props on the front of airplanes. They really haven't changed much
with the advent of E power - actually went down with the use of lighter
props.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I'd just like to offer that the Hacker Q80 design doesn't
change much. The rotating outer member (Q80-14) weighs about 100g and
rotates up to 7K rpm with an 1 1/2" radius. The rotor in a C50 also weighs
around 100g, but it rotates up to 40K rpm on a 3/8" radius. The latter, with the
gearbox, can probably apply torque quicker than the outie. Most other popular
outrunners fall somewhere between these. (Be neat if someone actually made the
calcs.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I've lots of flights with the Q80-11 without issue (the
Q80-14 is less powerful). It is firmly front mounted with also a solid rear
mount. I think we all know the importance of a nose ring on a YS and there's
been no success running inrunners without a rear support. While some have had
success running the Q without a rear support (bet the prop was light), these
things really need a more sturdy rear support (or very stout front mnt / fuse
nose) than may be obvious.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Essentially something slightly different that adds to the
learning curve, hopefully Charlie's experience and these discussions will
prevent further occurrences.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mikemueller@f3aunlimited.com
href="mailto:mikemueller@f3aunlimited.com">mike mueller</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=getterflash@yahoo.com
href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">Bob Kane</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 05, 2012 8:26
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw:
Serious Torque on the Nose of the Model- RESUBMITTED</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV style="RIGHT: auto"><SPAN style="RIGHT: auto">Very cool video. I've
learned a lot of neat things watching Youtube video's. Thanks Bob<VAR
id=yui-ie-cursor></VAR><BR style="RIGHT: auto" class=yui-cursor></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px"
class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Bob Kane <<A
href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">getterflash@yahoo.com</A>><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Generalpatterndiscussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>>
<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, December 5,
2012 7:07 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
[NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Serious Torque on the Nose of the Model -
RESUBMITTED<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1253724780>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Charlie was spot on with his comment on
torque, but there are two torque vectors at work, the first is the obvious
force required to turn the prop and the "equal but opposite" torque the motor
transmits to it's mount. If that was all we had to worry about, the single
mount would probably be fine. But there is the other torque (gyroscopic
precession) resulting from attempting to move a rotating mass in the
pitch or yaw axis. Here is a good youtube video demonstrating the effect
. .. . </SPAN><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV id=yiv1253724780>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><FONT
face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><FONT
face="times new roman, new york, times, serif">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty9QSiVC2g0<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bob
Kane<BR>getterflash@yahoo.com<BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px"
class=hr contentEditable=false readonly="true"></DIV><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> mike mueller
<mikemueller@f3aunlimited.com><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Bob Kane
<getterflash@yahoo.com> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, December 4, 2012 4:34
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Serious Torque on the Nose of the Model -
RESUBMITTED<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1253724780>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN>Say what?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN>"a
large reactionary force called gyroscopic precession"</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN> I
feel infinitlty smarter</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN> Is
it violent warble?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN> What
prop were you running????</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN> Mike<VAR
id=yiv1253724780yui-ie-cursor></VAR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px"
class=yiv1253724780hr></DIV><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Bob Kane
<getterflash@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> "vicenterc@comcast.net"
<vicenterc@comcast.net>; General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:54
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Serious Torque on the Nose of the Model -
RESUBMITTED<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1253724780>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV><SPAN><FONT size=3 face="times new roman, new york, times, serif">The Q80
has a large </FONT><FONT
face="times new roman, new york, times, serif">diameter</FONT><FONT size=3
face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"> rotating mass, and it
brings with it a large reactionary force called gyroscopic precession when it
is spinning. In laymen terms it will strongly resist changing direction
in yaw or pitch. A rear brace would help keep this force in
check. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN><FONT
size=3 face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: 'times
new roman', 'new york', times, serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN><BR> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bob
Kane<BR>getterflash@yahoo.com<BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px"
class=yiv1253724780hr></DIV><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "vicenterc@comcast.net"
<vicenterc@comcast.net><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, December 4, 2012 8:27
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Serious Torque on the Nose of the Model -
RESUBMITTED<BR></FONT></DIV><BR>I understand that a rear brace is a must for
this motor. <BR><BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>Sent via BlackBerry by
AT&T<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: "Charlie Barrera" <<A
href="mailto:charliebarrera@consolidated.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:charliebarrera@consolidated.net">charliebarrera@consolidated.net</A>><BR>Sender:
<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow
target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Date:
Tue, 4 Dec 2012 07:02:47 <BR>To: <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Reply-To:
General pattern discussion <<A
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ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion] Serious Torque on the Nose of the Model
-<BR>
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