<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.17037" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV>Ahhh, the Hedral sisters, Ann and Di.&nbsp; Back in my younger days, I 
dated both of them at the same time.&nbsp; After all the sneaking around to make 
sure neither knew I was seeing the other, I was left bent every which way.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Rob</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob Richards</A> 
  </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
  title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org 
  href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A> 
  </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:33 
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules 
  change proposals</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD vAlign=top>
        <DIV>I bought a box of dihedral recently. I had a box of anhedral left 
        over from the 70s (used for stabs back then) and I made the mistake of 
        storing them next to each other. Apparently they cancelled each other 
        out and all I have left now is some crumbled up cardboard.</DIV>
        <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
        <DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 4/23/12, Keith Hoard <I>&lt;<A 
        href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">khoard@gmail.com</A>&gt;</I></B> 
        wrote:<BR></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE 
        style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: 
          Keith Hoard &lt;khoard@gmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 
          [NSRCA-discussion] Rules change proposals<BR>To: "General pattern 
          discussion" &lt;nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org&gt;<BR>Date: Monday, 
          April 23, 2012, 6:06 PM<BR><BR>
          <DIV id=yiv42420567>
          <DIV>
          <DIV>The reason I was asking is because I had bought a box of down 
          thrust from Shalimar Hobbies a couple years ago and still have some 
          left over.&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><BR></DIV>
          <DIV>If it's now illegal, I need to return what's left for a partial 
          refund.&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><BR></DIV>
          <DIV>The box of right thrust is still shrink wrapped, but I can't find 
          the receipt.&nbsp;<BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
          <DIV><BR>On Apr 23, 2012, at 16:44, Ronald Van Putte &lt;<A 
          href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vanputte@cox.net" 
          target=_blank rel=nofollow 
          ymailto="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">vanputte@cox.net</A>&gt; 
          wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
          <DIV></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV>I've just added an arming plug assembly to my Vanquish. 
            &nbsp;It has the added feature of having the ability to minimize the 
            coriolis acceleration due to precession of the earth and it self 
            adjusts for latitude. 
            <DIV><BR></DIV>
            <DIV>Ron</DIV>
            <DIV><BR>
            <DIV>
            <DIV>On Apr 23, 2012, at 4:33 PM, Scott McHarg wrote:</DIV><BR 
            class=yiv42420567Apple-interchange-newline>
            <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
              <DIV class=yiv42420567gmail_extra>Only if you use a disarming plug 
              and/or bore another hole in the side of your fuse.&nbsp; I heard 
              something along the lines of the "Hoarder Policy" being written as 
              we speak but only after a survey has been presented.<BR><BR>
              <DIV class=yiv42420567gmail_quote>On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 4:30 PM, 
              Keith Hoard <SPAN dir=ltr>&lt;<A 
              href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=khoard@gmail.com" 
              target=_blank rel=nofollow 
              ymailto="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">khoard@gmail.com</A>&gt;</SPAN> 
              wrote:<BR>
              <BLOCKQUOTE class=yiv42420567gmail_quote 
              style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
                <DIV>
                <DIV>I just added some down thrust to my plane, is that 
                illegal?<BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
                <DIV>
                <DIV class=yiv42420567h5>
                <DIV><BR>On Apr 23, 2012, at 15:54, James Oddino &lt;<A 
                href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com" 
                target=_blank rel=nofollow 
                ymailto="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</A>&gt; 
                wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
                <DIV></DIV>
                <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                  <DIV>Scott, I don't want to beat this to death but you must be 
                  very careful. &nbsp;I could interpret this to disallow Contra 
                  Drive prop set ups that automatically cancel the effects of 
                  spiral slipstream, torque, gyroscopic precession and P-Factor. 
                  &nbsp;What about adding aerodynamic appendages that improve 
                  stability and damping? &nbsp;It is not clear why the 
                  aerodynamicist should should be given an advantage over the 
                  power management guy or the electronics guy. &nbsp;I'll never 
                  understand why the variable thrust alignment system was 
                  disallowed. &nbsp; 
                  <DIV><BR></DIV>
                  <DIV>I don't really care what is decided, but if the rule is 
                  not well defined it will cause turmoil and new guys thinking 
                  about getting into pattern won't like it.</DIV>
                  <DIV><BR></DIV>
                  <DIV>Jim</DIV>
                  <DIV><BR>
                  <DIV>
                  <DIV>On Apr 23, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Scott McHarg 
                  wrote:</DIV><BR>
                  <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                    <DIV class=yiv42420567gmail_extra>Good 
                    Afternoon,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; First, let's agree that "Engine 
                    managment" was not a correct term that we derived from the 
                    "old days" and we will fix that (per John Fuqua) assuming it 
                    passes the initial vote.&nbsp; Second, let's not lose sight 
                    that we are speaking about telemetry and we are speaking of 
                    automated functions here, not those that require direct and 
                    manual input.&nbsp; The wording is such that engine 
                    management systems that COORDINATE (through telemetry and 
                    read: automatically adjust) power output (to maintain a 
                    speed or anything that may relate to) with model 
                    performance, position, or attitude.&nbsp; Honestly, this is 
                    no different than a gyro correcting attitude and we 
                    certainly don't want to allow that.&nbsp; We simply are 
                    trying to allow telemetry that is important for safety and 
                    continue to dis-allow anything that automates flying the 
                    aircraft.&nbsp; In my very humble opinion and to answer your 
                    question; Yes, I think we do want to outlaw something that 
                    makes our models fly better IF it is automated and not 
                    pilot-induced.<BR><BR>
                    <DIV class=yiv42420567gmail_quote>On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 
                    11:10 AM, James Oddino <SPAN dir=ltr>&lt;<A 
                    href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com" 
                    target=_blank rel=nofollow 
                    ymailto="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</A>&gt;</SPAN> 
                    wrote:<BR>
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class=yiv42420567gmail_quote 
                    style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
                      <DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
                      <DIV>What does it mean? &nbsp;Electric motors change the 
                      power as a function of the load applied. &nbsp;For a given 
                      throttle setting the motor will draw more current as the 
                      model is pulled vertical for instance. &nbsp;Is the rule 
                      trying to prevent that or prevent an improvement in its 
                      ability to do that? &nbsp;Is it trying to outlaw braking 
                      or variable pitch props? &nbsp;</DIV>
                      <DIV><BR></DIV>
                      <DIV>The question we should ask is; do we really want to 
                      outlaw anything that might make our models fly 
                      better?</DIV>
                      <DIV>
                      <DIV><BR></DIV>
                      <DIV><BR>
                      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN 
                        style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate">
                        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN 
                          style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate">
                          <DIV lang=EN-US>
                          <DIV>
                          <DIV>
                          <DIV>
                          <DIV>
                          <DIV>
                          <DIV>
                          <DIV>
                          <DIV>
                          <DIV 
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif">9. 
                          Engine management systems that coordinate power output 
                          with model performance, position, 
                          or&nbsp;<U></U><U></U></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
                          <DIV>
                          <DIV 
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN 
                          style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif">attitude.”</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion 
                      mailing list<BR><A 
                      href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                      target=_blank rel=nofollow 
                      ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A 
                      href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" 
                      target=_blank 
                      rel=nofollow>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR 
                    clear=all><BR>-- <BR><B style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,255)"><FONT 
                    style="FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms, sans-serif" size=4>Scott 
                    A. 
                    McHarg</FONT></B><BR><BR></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion 
                    mailing list<BR><A 
                    href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                    target=_blank rel=nofollow 
                    ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A 
                    href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" 
                    target=_blank 
                    rel=nofollow>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
                <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
                  <DIV><SPAN>_______________________________________________</SPAN><BR><SPAN>NSRCA-discussion 
                  mailing list</SPAN><BR><SPAN><A 
                  href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                  target=_blank rel=nofollow 
                  ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN><A 
                  href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" 
                  target=_blank 
                  rel=nofollow>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion 
                mailing list<BR><A 
                href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
                target=_blank rel=nofollow 
                ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A 
                href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" 
                target=_blank 
                rel=nofollow>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR 
              clear=all><BR>-- <BR><B style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,255)"><FONT 
              style="FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms, sans-serif" size=4>Scott A. 
              McHarg</FONT></B><BR>Sr. Systems Engineer - 
              Infrastructure<BR>Bryan Research &amp; 
              Engineering<BR><BR></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion 
              mailing list<BR><A 
              href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
              target=_blank rel=nofollow 
              ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A 
              href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" 
              target=_blank 
              rel=nofollow>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
            <DIV><SPAN>_______________________________________________</SPAN><BR><SPAN>NSRCA-discussion 
            mailing list</SPAN><BR><SPAN><A 
            href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
            target=_blank rel=nofollow 
            ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN><A 
            href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" 
            target=_blank 
            rel=nofollow>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV><BR>-----Inline 
          Attachment Follows-----<BR><BR>
          <DIV 
          class=plainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion 
          mailing list<BR><A 
          href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" 
          ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A 
          href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" 
          target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion 
  mailing 
  list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>