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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I have been in this sport about as long or longer as anyone
participating today. I have seen all the changes since 1978. I have
been actively involved in many of those changes. Many of those changes of
the past were far more severe and drastic than what we are asking for
here. Of course, many of the same arguments against the changes existed
then as now. I would say that if these changes had not occurred, I think
our special event would be almost non-existent. for example, the uproar
over turnaround was immense, as was the huge fight over the noise rule. I
was directly responsible for the change to flying by class at the nats.
that was a huge fight, even with ama. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>when things become extreme and very difficult to accomplish and
there is no real compelling reason to maintain the status quo, then it is time
for a change. There are many that feel this way not just me. the
survey validates that as well. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Regarding your last sentence, I disagree on both counts,,,I
believe it will help the sport and I do not believe it will drive the cost any
more than anything else has done. It is the nature of the beast that
being very competitive is costly. Changing the weight rule will be
beneficial in my opinion. neither of your reasons are proven nor
compelling to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Mike <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave
Lockhart<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 18, 2012 7:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The fact that we can have a legit discussion about which has the
advantage suggests to me that the existing rules should not be altered to favor
one or the other.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave B stated he chose electrics for the advantages….but
didn’t want to pay for the advantages. I, perhaps wrongly,
interpreted an advantage as being a performance advantage. In any case,
with rare exceptions, gaining an advantage requires extra cost…whether
time, or money, or innovation, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m quite comfortable to assert that electrics under 11
lbs are cheaper than glow under 11 lbs…..and allowing a weight increase
for either or both would not benefit pattern and in the longer term would
increase the average cost of the average plane on the flightline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave L<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ronald
Van Putte<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 18, 2012 8:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Me dare to disagree with Dave Lockhart? Sure, why not?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> i started flying electric-powered airplanes long after
the pioneers like Joe Gross and Jason Shulman showed us what could be done.
I prefer electric-powered airplanes because of a lot of what I don't have
relative to glow-powered airplanes. I don't have the mess, maintenance
costs and reliability issues that glow-powered airplanes have.
However, when I started flying electric-powered airplanes, there
were significant performance disadvantages to glow-powered airplanes.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Now that there is close to parity between the two powerplant
choices, i see the glow-powered airplane proponents "protecting their
turf" against the encroachment of electric-powered airplanes.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Do electric-powered airplanes really have a performance
advantage over a glow-powered airplane? Not that I can see. In
fact, the opposite seems to be true with most glow-powered airplanes I've
seen in competition.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Ron Van Putte<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mar 18, 2012, at 7:14 PM, Dave Lockhart wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“Why should I have to spend extra $$ to meet a rule
that has a built in inequity to electric system?”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Because you are gaining a performance advantage. Higher
performance, with rare exception, costs more.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave L</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]">[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Dave Burton<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Sunday, March 18,
2012 7:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>'General pattern
discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Del, Where in any of the rules proposals is there any mandate to
fly heavier planes? You can still fly an under 5Kg plane and have a performance
advantage. I’m not proposing to bend any rules, I want to change the
rules.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I don’t want to fly glow any more. I want to fly electric.
My choice is to accept a performance penalty to save a few bucks (About
$100.00/oz usually).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]">[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Del R<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Sunday, March 18, 2012
7:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>General pattern
discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Dave..</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>So if you chose not to spend the dollars you can chose to use
glow... Both are viable means of campaigning on the trail. The choice is do you
want to try to bend the rules or comply within the rules and fly electric. If
electric is such a expensive choice the glow is the more affordable solution
for some. Why force a mandate because a few don't want to pay to play the
electric solution. Many are doing it quite well. Maybe time for a new plaque
for the contestant who places in the top 3 spending the least on the airframe..
lol..</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Now that would be novel.. lol.. Thanks for taking the time to
reply.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> Del</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message -----</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net" title="burtona@atmc.net">Dave Burton</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sunday, March 18,
2012 7:08 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Because it cost me more to buy CF stuff, lighter servos, etc!
Why don’t you get that!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>And how does the weight change make your glow stuff oobsolete!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You don’t know me – what have I said that’s
p**** & moan? I’m trying to make a rational argument that you
can’t seem to grasp.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Del R<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Sunday, March 18,
2012 6:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>General pattern
discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>If the advantages are so great to fly electric then why p*** &
moan about making weight. Making all the glow powered aircraft
obsolete does what to help promote the sport.. Of `` I forgot.. That's not what
is really important.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> Del<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message -----</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net" title="burtona@atmc.net">Dave Burton</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern discussion'</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sunday, March 18,
2012 2:06 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>George,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Yours is an interesting post. In an environment where we are all
flying the same power systems I think you would be spot on. However, what
I’d like to see is a change that accounts for the fact that glow planes
must make 5Kg without fuel and electric must make 5Kg with fuel. In order for
comparable planes to comply with the weight it’s necessary for electric
to use more hi-tech and expensive components, lighter less durable building
techniques, more expensive and lighter accessories, etc. thus increasing the
cost. Almost every glow 2M plane takes off above 5Kg and flies at above 5Kg the
entire sequence. I know there are exceptions but I think it’s generally
true. I know I could choose to fly glow and not have an issue. However I
want the advantages of electric without having to pay a significant cost
penalty to do so. Let’s fix the inequity of this in the AMA classes.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave Burton</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>George Kennie<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Sunday, March 18,
2012 1:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>General pattern
discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>My understanding is that the 5Kg weight rule was adopted
because of the International standard,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>and as part of the copendium, would have no less adherence
than any other rule, after all, a rule is<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>a rule and by vertue of being a rule becomes a stipulation
requiring adherence.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In spite of the fact that a 2 meter airframe powered by
a glow motor appears to have little difficulty<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>achieving compliance with the standard and 2 meter airframes
powered by an electric motor pose<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>additional challenges, this in no way should bring into
contest adherence to the standard. "A RULE<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>is a RULE !"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This problem introduces a choice to be rendered on the part
of the participant. It would appear that<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>the choices become either fiscally based or possibly a
downsized effort in order to comply with the<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>standard.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Downsize ???, you say. How can I downsize when all my
competition is utilizing full 2 meter airframes?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Is it possible that someone might compete with a Wind 110 S
and actually fly well enough to actually<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>place in the upper eschelon in the upper classes?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Can I remind you that just last year Frakowiak flew a 40
sized Sequence airframe in Master's and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>cleaned everybody's clock. "Oh yeah, but that was
Frak" comes the responce.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Aha !,.......we may just be coming to a newly realized
conclusion. "Could it possibly be that I don't fly<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>well enough to beat my competition no matter what size
airframe I am campaigning?" " Maybe it doesn't<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>have as much to do with the RULE as it does with me. Could
it possibly be that I could benefit from<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>a more comprehensive practice routine?"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>You can see where I'm going with this I'm sure and that is,
all RULES are to be honored and not<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>approached from the perspective of " How can I
adjust/modify this particular RULE so that what I personally<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>am currently unable to do becomes, for me, possible?"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>So the bottom line, for me, becomes, I am the one who needs
to adjust and not the RULE to maintain<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>balance in the proposed statutes.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Just some ramblings guys as I see things.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Georgie<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Dave Burton <<a
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:red'>“</span><span style='color:red'>If we want the weight rule to
return in full force and expect it to be enforceable rule, then we need the
NSRCA to target a year in the future where zero tolerance will come into effect
for AMA Pattern. That way, you achieve the desired result and you provide
pilots with enough time to renovate their equipment and focus on compliance
when buying or building. This avoids punishing people for flying in a world
that was at best a messy "grey zone" created by our
own lack of rigor as a special interest group.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:red'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Interesting idea, But NRSCA couldn’t do this even if
it wanted to IMO. First, most CDs probably wouldn’t care to measure and
weigh, and second, NSRCA has no authority to mandate it. After all it’s
still an AMA event, not a NSRCA event.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>[mailto:<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>John Ford<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Saturday, March 17,
2012 8:18 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>General pattern
discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We are our own worst enemies...we wouldn't be having this
conversation if the rules had been enforced as intended by everyone all
the time.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Since we have had different enforcement depending on the
CD, depending on the ED, depending on the contest, etc, we now force each
successive Nats ED to play "bad guy" in a way that tries to annoy
or alienate the least number of people.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Let's face it, I think that Arch has inherited a "no
win" scenario here and we shouldn't put the onus of the solution on his
shoulders.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Today, the difference between a "legal" and an
"illegal" plane is limited to how much glue was used or the choice
of paint, prop, or brand of battery...it isn't because the heavier plane is
packing a game-changing feature that gives it the advantage (I didn't see the
contras shut everyone out in 2011, either). If one is
looking to disqualify a pilot because they feel they can do so on a
technicality fed by years/decades of ambiguity and lack of enforcement, then
things are really getting ugly.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The mere fact that we are having this discusion has
created a situation where a significant number of pilots are considering not
attending the Nats (significant, because last year, there were several who
knew they didn't make weight but at the same time knew they were not in the
hunt but enjoyed flying at the Nats).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The solution isn't black and white, nor is it going to be
fixed overnight.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If we want the weight rule to return in full force and
expect it to be enforceable rule, then we need the NSRCA to target a year in
the future where zero tolerance will come into effect for AMA Pattern. That
way, you achieve the desired result and you provide pilots with enough time
to renovate their equipment and focus on compliance when buying or building.
This avoids punishing people for flying in a world that was at best a messy
"grey zone" created by our own lack of rigor as a special
interest group.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Just my opinion, and by the way, my planes make weight.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>John<br>
<br>
--- On<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>Sat, 3/17/12, Del R<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><i><<a
href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com" target="_blank">drykert2@rochester.rr.com</a>></i></b><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:
0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
From: Del R <<a href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com" target="_blank">drykert2@rochester.rr.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Date: Saturday, March 17, 2012, 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>HMMMmmm!!! Why both having rules if they are only
occasionally adhered to. In fairness to all honorable contestants, rules
should be honored whether PATTERN police are present or not. I sure
would not want to bust my butt spending the buckaroos and committing the
time to be legal at any local or regional or national event to know that some
can show up to beat up on me because they spent their time practicing, but not
flying a legal plane.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I have never understood the desire for some to encourage hollow
victories. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> Del </span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:
0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
OriginaI Message -----</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgghome@comcast.net"
target="_blank" title="jgghome@comcast.net">John Gayer</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank" title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Friday, March 16,
2012 10:19 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Arch,<br>
I certainly was not objecting to you enforcing the weight rule at the Nats.
I'm with you 100% on that and any other rule enforcement at the Nats
you can afford to do. You have to admit that your decision to weigh every
plane created a lot of "discussion" on this list.<br>
Can't see anyone going to the Nats knowing they are going to get just a
tearsheet and a bunch of zeros for their efforts. Again, this is not to imply
you should be doing anything different, just that we should change the rule
to encourage participation in the future.<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 3/16/2012 7:55 PM, Archie Stafford wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Hey, all I did was decide to enforce an existing rule.
Actually, I didn't have to say a thing except for how it was going to be enforced.
Frankly, if I had the number of people available to strictly enforce every
rule, I would. If nothing else my decision has at least sparked the
debate about the rule. It has never made sense to me to never enforce it.
Personally I think it needs to be left alone, but others don't. Even this
year, no one is saying you can't fly a heavy airplane. You just wont get to
keep the scores for that round. I seriously doubt someone with a real shot at
winning would show up with a heavy airplane anyway. People can even have
their tear sheets for the round. It just wont be listed in the results. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Arch<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Mar 16, 2012, at 9:48 PM, John Gayer <<a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgghome@comcast.net"
target="_blank">jgghome@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Point taken about having to serve notice that you are
going to enforce a rule at a local contest. Note that Arch had to do that for
the Nats this year and such a clatter did arise....<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/16/2012 6:53 PM, Dave Burton wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John,
one issue about waive a rule notification in really bothers me in your
suggestion. Having to post in advance 30 days that a CD will enforce a rule
is counter to any other process I’ve seen.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It
becoming clear -eliminating the max weight rule is the only system that
really works. LOL</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<p><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>John Gayer<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, March 16,
2012 8:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>General pattern
discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>This won't work very well, in my opinion. Who is going to the Nats if they
start out 5-10% behind? This does nothing to increase attendance and is
detrimental to operation of local contests. All it takes is an unhappy pilot
feeling he was home-towned protesting vociferously about the heavy airplane
that just beat him and demanding a weight check that might reverse the first
and second places.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<br>
IF the CD denies the protest, you've lost a pilot. If you do a weight check
and it fails, then you've lost a different pilot. To prevent this, a CD must
waive the weight rules on his sanction which is not normally done now,
although it should be. So extra work and/or hassle for the CD and extra work
for scorekeeper/scorekeeping systems. For what gain? A rule that will not be
enforced locally and will keep pilots away from the Nats just as much as no
weight allowance at all.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<br>
At the very least, preface the rule proposal with something like:<br>
This weight rule will be enforced at the Nats. If a CD chooses to
include this rule at a local contest, he must publicize that fact
appropriately to all potential attendees at least 30 days prior to the
contest.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<br>
At a local contest, this officially leaves us with no weight rule at all in
AMA classes. That's probably OK as we could reject on size if needed.
Personally I would only turn someone away if they brought a 42% Extra to fly
in Masters and maybe not even then...<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
John<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/15/2012 7:54 AM,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ronlock@comcast.net"
target="_blank">ronlock@comcast.net</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Here is a
copy of another proposal for consideration by the Contest Board along
with the others that have been submitted.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This one
does not disqualify a model for not meeting weight limits. It imposes a
score penalty, but still allows the</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>model to
participate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ron
Lockhart</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></pre></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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