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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Dave.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>So if you chose not to spend the
dollars you can chose to use glow... Both are viable means of campaigning on the
trail. The choice is do you want to try to bend the rules or comply within the
rules and fly electric. If electric is such a expensive choice the glow is the
more affordable solution for some. Why force a mandate because a few don't want
to pay to play the electric solution. Many are doing it quite well. Maybe time
for a new plaque for the contestant who places in the top 3 spending the least
on the airframe.. lol.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Now that would be novel.. lol..
Thanks for taking the time to reply. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial> Del </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=burtona@atmc.net href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">Dave Burton</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 18, 2012 7:08
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
Proposals</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Because
it cost me more to buy CF stuff, lighter servos, etc! Why don’t you get
that!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">And
how does the weight change make your glow stuff
oobsolete!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">You
don’t know me – what have I said that’s p**** & moan? I’m trying to make a
rational argument that you can’t seem to grasp.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dave<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Del
R<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 18, 2012 6:49 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
Proposals<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If the
advantages are so great to fly electric then why p*** & moan about
making weight. Making all the glow powered aircraft obsolete does
what to help promote the sport.. Of `` I forgot.. That's not what is really
important. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Del </SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=burtona@atmc.net href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">Dave Burton</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Sunday, March
18, 2012 2:06 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">George,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yours
is an interesting post. In an environment where we are all flying the same
power systems I think you would be spot on. However, what I’d like to see is
a change that accounts for the fact that glow planes must make 5Kg without
fuel and electric must make 5Kg with fuel. In order for comparable planes to
comply with the weight it’s necessary for electric to use more hi-tech and
expensive components, lighter less durable building techniques, more
expensive and lighter accessories, etc. thus increasing the cost. Almost
every glow 2M plane takes off above 5Kg and flies at above 5Kg the entire
sequence. I know there are exceptions but I think it’s generally true.
I know I could choose to fly glow and not have an issue. However I
want the advantages of electric without having to pay a significant cost
penalty to do so. Let’s fix the inequity of this in the AMA
classes.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dave
Burton<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>George Kennie<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 18, 2012
1:41 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>My understanding is that the 5Kg weight rule was adopted
because of the International standard,<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>and as part of the copendium, would have no less
adherence than any other rule, after all, a rule is <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>a rule and by vertue of being a rule becomes a
stipulation requiring adherence.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>In spite of the fact that a 2 meter airframe powered
by a glow motor appears to have little difficulty <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>achieving compliance with the standard and 2 meter
airframes powered by an electric motor pose<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>additional challenges, this in no way should bring into
contest adherence to the standard. "A RULE <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>is a RULE !"<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>This problem introduces a choice to be rendered on the
part of the participant. It would appear that<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>the choices become either fiscally based or possibly a
downsized effort in order to comply with the <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>standard.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Downsize ???, you say. How can I downsize when all my
competition is utilizing full 2 meter airframes?<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Is it possible that someone might compete with a Wind 110
S and actually fly well enough to actually<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>place in the upper eschelon in the upper
classes?<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Can I remind you that just last year Frakowiak flew a 40
sized Sequence airframe in Master's and <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>cleaned everybody's clock. "Oh yeah, but that was Frak"
comes the responce. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Aha !,.......we may just be coming to a newly realized
conclusion. "Could it possibly be that I don't fly <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>well enough to beat my competition no matter what size
airframe I am campaigning?" " Maybe it doesn't <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>have as much to do with the RULE as it does with me.
Could it possibly be that I could benefit from<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>a more comprehensive practice
routine?"<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>You can see where I'm going with this I'm sure and that
is, all RULES are to be honored and not <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>approached from the perspective of " How can I
adjust/modify this particular RULE so that what I
personally<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>am currently unable to do becomes, for me,
possible?"<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>So the bottom line, for me, becomes, I am the one who
needs to adjust and not the RULE to maintain<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>balance in the proposed statutes.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Just some ramblings guys as I see
things.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Georgie<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Dave Burton <<A
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: red; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">“</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: red">If we want the weight rule to return in full force and
expect it to be enforceable rule, then we need the NSRCA to target a year in
the future where zero tolerance will come into effect for AMA Pattern. That
way, you achieve the desired result and you provide pilots with enough time
to renovate their equipment and focus on compliance when buying or building.
This avoids punishing people for flying in a world that was at best
a messy "grey zone" created by our own lack of rigor as a
special interest group.”</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: red"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Interesting idea, But NRSCA couldn’t do this even if it
wanted to IMO. First, most CDs probably wouldn’t care to measure and weigh,
and second, NSRCA has no authority to mandate it. After all it’s still an
AMA event, not a NSRCA event.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>John Ford<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 17, 2012 8:18
PM</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><B>To:</B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
Proposals<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
vAlign=top>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>We are our own worst enemies...we wouldn't be having
this conversation if the rules had been enforced as intended by
everyone all the time. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Since we have had different enforcement depending on
the CD, depending on the ED, depending on the contest, etc, we now
force each successive Nats ED to play "bad guy" in a way that tries to
annoy or alienate the least number of people. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Let's face it, I think that Arch has inherited a "no
win" scenario here and we shouldn't put the onus of the solution on
his shoulders. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Today, the difference between a "legal" and an
"illegal" plane is limited to how much glue was used or the choice of
paint, prop, or brand of battery...it isn't because the heavier plane
is packing a game-changing feature that gives it the advantage (I
didn't see the contras shut everyone out in
2011, either). If one is looking to disqualify a pilot
because they feel they can do so on a technicality fed by
years/decades of ambiguity and lack of enforcement, then things are
really getting ugly.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>The mere fact that we are having this discusion has
created a situation where a significant number of pilots are
considering not attending the Nats (significant, because last year,
there were several who knew they didn't make weight but at the same
time knew they were not in the hunt but enjoyed flying at the Nats).
<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>The solution isn't black and white, nor is it going to
be fixed overnight. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>If we want the weight rule to return in full force and
expect it to be enforceable rule, then we need the NSRCA to target a
year in the future where zero tolerance will come into effect for AMA
Pattern. That way, you achieve the desired result and you provide
pilots with enough time to renovate their equipment and focus on
compliance when buying or building. This avoids punishing people for
flying in a world that was at best a messy "grey
zone" created by our own lack of rigor as a special interest
group.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Just my opinion, and by the way, my planes make
weight.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>John<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 3/17/12, Del R <I><<A
href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com"
target=_blank>drykert2@rochester.rr.com</A>></I></B>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><BR>From: Del R <<A
href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com"
target=_blank>drykert2@rochester.rr.com</A>><BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<BR>To: "General pattern
discussion" <<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Date:
Saturday, March 17, 2012, 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">HMMMmmm!!!
Why both having rules if they are only occasionally adhered to. In
fairness to all honorable contestants, rules should be honored
whether PATTERN police are present or not. I sure would not
want to bust my butt spending the buckaroos and committing the
time to be legal at any local or regional or national event to know
that some can show up to beat up on me because they spent their time
practicing, but not flying a legal
plane.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
have never understood the desire for some to encourage hollow
victories. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Del </SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----
OriginaI Message ----- </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=jgghome@comcast.net
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgghome@comcast.net"
target=_blank>John Gayer</A> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>General pattern discussion</A>
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Friday, March 16, 2012 10:19 PM</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Arch,<BR>I certainly was not objecting to you
enforcing the weight rule at the Nats. I'm with you 100% on
that and any other rule enforcement at the Nats you can afford to
do. You have to admit that your decision to weigh every plane
created a lot of "discussion" on this list.<BR>Can't see anyone
going to the Nats knowing they are going to get just a tearsheet
and a bunch of zeros for their efforts. Again, this is not to
imply you should be doing anything different, just that we should
change the rule to encourage participation in the
future.<BR>John<BR><BR>On 3/16/2012 7:55 PM, Archie Stafford
wrote: <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Hey, all I did was decide to enforce an existing
rule. Actually, I didn't have to say a thing except for how it was
going to be enforced. Frankly, if I had the number of people
available to strictly enforce every rule, I would. If
nothing else my decision has at least sparked the debate about the
rule. It has never made sense to me to never enforce it.
Personally I think it needs to be left alone, but others don't.
Even this year, no one is saying you can't fly a heavy airplane.
You just wont get to keep the scores for that round. I seriously
doubt someone with a real shot at winning would show up with a
heavy airplane anyway. People can even have their tear sheets for
the round. It just wont be listed in the
results. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Arch<BR><BR>Sent from my
iPhone<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><BR>On Mar 16, 2012, at 9:48 PM, John Gayer <<A
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgghome@comcast.net"
target=_blank>jgghome@comcast.net</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Point taken about having to serve notice that
you are going to enforce a rule at a local contest. Note that
Arch had to do that for the Nats this year and such a clatter
did arise....<BR><BR><BR>On 3/16/2012 6:53 PM, Dave Burton
wrote: <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">John,
one issue about waive a rule notification in really bothers me
in your suggestion. Having to post in advance 30 days that a CD
will enforce a rule is counter to any other process I’ve seen.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
becoming clear -eliminating the max weight rule is the only
system that really works. LOL</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>John Gayer<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 16,
2012 8:20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
Proposals</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>This won't work very well, in my opinion. Who is going to the
Nats if they start out 5-10% behind? This does nothing to increase
attendance and is detrimental to operation of local contests. All
it takes is an unhappy pilot feeling he was home-towned protesting
vociferously about the heavy airplane that just beat him and
demanding a weight check that might reverse the first and second
places. <BR><BR>IF the CD denies the protest, you've lost a pilot.
If you do a weight check and it fails, then you've lost a
different pilot. To prevent this, a CD must waive the weight rules
on his sanction which is not normally done now, although it should
be. So extra work and/or hassle for the CD and extra work for
scorekeeper/scorekeeping systems. For what gain? A rule that will
not be enforced locally and will keep pilots away from the Nats
just as much as no weight allowance at all. <BR><BR>At the very
least, preface the rule proposal with something like:<BR>This
weight rule will be enforced at the Nats. If a CD chooses to
include this rule at a local contest, he must publicize that fact
appropriately to all potential attendees at least 30 days prior to
the contest. <BR><BR>At a local contest, this officially leaves us
with no weight rule at all in AMA classes. That's probably OK as
we could reject on size if needed. Personally I would only turn
someone away if they brought a 42% Extra to fly in Masters and
maybe not even then...<BR><BR>Cheers<BR>John<BR><BR><BR>On
3/15/2012 7:54 AM, <A
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ronlock@comcast.net"
target=_blank>ronlock@comcast.net</A> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hi
All,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Here
is a copy of another proposal for consideration by the Contest
Board along with the others that have been
submitted.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">This
one does not disqualify a model for not meeting weight limits.
It imposes a score penalty, but still allows the
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">model to
participate.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Ron
Lockhart</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV><PRE>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><A href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></PRE></DIV>
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<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
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class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<o:p></o:p></P>
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class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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mailing list<BR><A
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class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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