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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>If the advantages are so great to fly
electric then why p*** & moan about making weight. Making all the
glow powered aircraft obsolete does what to help promote the sport.. Of `` I
forgot.. That's not what is really important. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial> Del
</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=burtona@atmc.net href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">Dave Burton</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 18, 2012 2:06
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
Proposals</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">George,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yours
is an interesting post. In an environment where we are all flying the same
power systems I think you would be spot on. However, what I’d like to see is a
change that accounts for the fact that glow planes must make 5Kg without fuel
and electric must make 5Kg with fuel. In order for comparable planes to comply
with the weight it’s necessary for electric to use more hi-tech and expensive
components, lighter less durable building techniques, more expensive and
lighter accessories, etc. thus increasing the cost. Almost every glow 2M plane
takes off above 5Kg and flies at above 5Kg the entire sequence. I know there
are exceptions but I think it’s generally true. I know I could choose to
fly glow and not have an issue. However I want the advantages of electric
without having to pay a significant cost penalty to do so. Let’s fix the
inequity of this in the AMA classes.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dave
Burton<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>George
Kennie<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 18, 2012 1:41 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General
pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
Proposals<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>My understanding is that the 5Kg weight rule was adopted
because of the International standard,<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>and as part of the copendium, would have no less adherence
than any other rule, after all, a rule is <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>a rule and by vertue of being a rule becomes a stipulation
requiring adherence.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>In spite of the fact that a 2 meter airframe powered
by a glow motor appears to have little difficulty <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>achieving compliance with the standard and 2 meter
airframes powered by an electric motor pose<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>additional challenges, this in no way should bring into
contest adherence to the standard. "A RULE <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>is a RULE !"<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>This problem introduces a choice to be rendered on the part
of the participant. It would appear that<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>the choices become either fiscally based or possibly a
downsized effort in order to comply with the <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>standard.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Downsize ???, you say. How can I downsize when all my
competition is utilizing full 2 meter airframes?<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Is it possible that someone might compete with a Wind 110 S
and actually fly well enough to actually<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>place in the upper eschelon in the upper
classes?<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Can I remind you that just last year Frakowiak flew a 40
sized Sequence airframe in Master's and <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>cleaned everybody's clock. "Oh yeah, but that was Frak"
comes the responce. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Aha !,.......we may just be coming to a newly realized
conclusion. "Could it possibly be that I don't fly <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>well enough to beat my competition no matter what size
airframe I am campaigning?" " Maybe it doesn't <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>have as much to do with the RULE as it does with me. Could
it possibly be that I could benefit from<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>a more comprehensive practice
routine?"<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>You can see where I'm going with this I'm sure and that is,
all RULES are to be honored and not <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>approached from the perspective of " How can I
adjust/modify this particular RULE so that what I
personally<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>am currently unable to do becomes, for me,
possible?"<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>So the bottom line, for me, becomes, I am the one who needs
to adjust and not the RULE to maintain<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>balance in the proposed statutes.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Just some ramblings guys as I see
things.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Georgie<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Dave Burton <<A
href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: red; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">“</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: red">If we want the weight rule to return in full force and
expect it to be enforceable rule, then we need the NSRCA to target a year in
the future where zero tolerance will come into effect for AMA Pattern. That
way, you achieve the desired result and you provide pilots with enough time to
renovate their equipment and focus on compliance when buying or building. This
avoids punishing people for flying in a world that was at best a messy
"grey zone" created by our own lack of rigor as a special interest
group.”</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: red"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Interesting idea, But NRSCA couldn’t do this even if it wanted
to IMO. First, most CDs probably wouldn’t care to measure and weigh, and
second, NSRCA has no authority to mandate it. After all it’s still an AMA
event, not a NSRCA event.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>John Ford<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 17, 2012 8:18
PM</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><B>To:</B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
Proposals<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
vAlign=top>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>We are our own worst enemies...we wouldn't be having
this conversation if the rules had been enforced as intended by
everyone all the time. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Since we have had different enforcement depending on the
CD, depending on the ED, depending on the contest, etc, we now force
each successive Nats ED to play "bad guy" in a way that tries to annoy
or alienate the least number of people. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Let's face it, I think that Arch has inherited a "no
win" scenario here and we shouldn't put the onus of the solution on his
shoulders. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Today, the difference between a "legal" and an "illegal"
plane is limited to how much glue was used or the choice of paint, prop,
or brand of battery...it isn't because the heavier plane is packing a
game-changing feature that gives it the advantage (I didn't see the
contras shut everyone out in 2011, either).
If one is looking to disqualify a pilot because they
feel they can do so on a technicality fed by years/decades of
ambiguity and lack of enforcement, then things are really getting
ugly.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>The mere fact that we are having this discusion has
created a situation where a significant number of pilots are considering
not attending the Nats (significant, because last year, there were
several who knew they didn't make weight but at the same time knew they
were not in the hunt but enjoyed flying at the Nats).
<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>The solution isn't black and white, nor is it going to
be fixed overnight. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>If we want the weight rule to return in full force and
expect it to be enforceable rule, then we need the NSRCA to target a
year in the future where zero tolerance will come into effect for AMA
Pattern. That way, you achieve the desired result and you provide pilots
with enough time to renovate their equipment and focus on compliance
when buying or building. This avoids punishing people for flying in a
world that was at best a messy "grey zone" created by our
own lack of rigor as a special interest group.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Just my opinion, and by the way, my planes make
weight.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>John<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 3/17/12, Del R <I><<A
href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com"
target=_blank>drykert2@rochester.rr.com</A>></I></B>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><BR>From: Del R <<A
href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com"
target=_blank>drykert2@rochester.rr.com</A>><BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<BR>To: "General pattern discussion"
<<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Date:
Saturday, March 17, 2012, 7:25 PM<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">HMMMmmm!!!
Why both having rules if they are only occasionally adhered to. In
fairness to all honorable contestants, rules should be honored whether
PATTERN police are present or not. I sure would not want to bust
my butt spending the buckaroos and committing the time to be
legal at any local or regional or national event to know that some can
show up to beat up on me because they spent their time practicing, but
not flying a legal plane.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I
have never understood the desire for some to encourage hollow
victories. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Del </SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----
OriginaI Message ----- </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=jgghome@comcast.net
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgghome@comcast.net"
target=_blank>John Gayer</A> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>General pattern discussion</A>
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Friday,
March 16, 2012 10:19 PM</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Arch,<BR>I certainly was not objecting to you
enforcing the weight rule at the Nats. I'm with you 100% on
that and any other rule enforcement at the Nats you can afford to
do. You have to admit that your decision to weigh every plane
created a lot of "discussion" on this list.<BR>Can't see anyone
going to the Nats knowing they are going to get just a tearsheet and
a bunch of zeros for their efforts. Again, this is not to imply you
should be doing anything different, just that we should change the
rule to encourage participation in the future.<BR>John<BR><BR>On
3/16/2012 7:55 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Hey, all I did was decide to enforce an existing
rule. Actually, I didn't have to say a thing except for how it was
going to be enforced. Frankly, if I had the number of people
available to strictly enforce every rule, I would. If nothing
else my decision has at least sparked the debate about the rule. It
has never made sense to me to never enforce it. Personally I think
it needs to be left alone, but others don't. Even this year, no one
is saying you can't fly a heavy airplane. You just wont get to keep
the scores for that round. I seriously doubt someone with a real
shot at winning would show up with a heavy airplane anyway. People
can even have their tear sheets for the round. It just wont be
listed in the results. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Arch<BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><BR>On Mar 16, 2012, at 9:48 PM, John Gayer <<A
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jgghome@comcast.net"
target=_blank>jgghome@comcast.net</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal>Point taken about having to serve notice that you
are going to enforce a rule at a local contest. Note that Arch had
to do that for the Nats this year and such a clatter did
arise....<BR><BR><BR>On 3/16/2012 6:53 PM, Dave Burton wrote:
<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">John,
one issue about waive a rule notification in really bothers me in
your suggestion. Having to post in advance 30 days that a CD will
enforce a rule is counter to any other process I’ve seen.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
becoming clear -eliminating the max weight rule is the only system
that really works. LOL</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>John Gayer<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 16,
2012 8:20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
Proposals</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>This won't work very well, in my opinion. Who is going to the
Nats if they start out 5-10% behind? This does nothing to increase
attendance and is detrimental to operation of local contests. All it
takes is an unhappy pilot feeling he was home-towned protesting
vociferously about the heavy airplane that just beat him and
demanding a weight check that might reverse the first and second
places. <BR><BR>IF the CD denies the protest, you've lost a pilot.
If you do a weight check and it fails, then you've lost a different
pilot. To prevent this, a CD must waive the weight rules on his
sanction which is not normally done now, although it should be. So
extra work and/or hassle for the CD and extra work for
scorekeeper/scorekeeping systems. For what gain? A rule that will
not be enforced locally and will keep pilots away from the Nats just
as much as no weight allowance at all. <BR><BR>At the very least,
preface the rule proposal with something like:<BR>This weight rule
will be enforced at the Nats. If a CD chooses to include this
rule at a local contest, he must publicize that fact appropriately
to all potential attendees at least 30 days prior to the contest.
<BR><BR>At a local contest, this officially leaves us with no weight
rule at all in AMA classes. That's probably OK as we could reject on
size if needed. Personally I would only turn someone away if they
brought a 42% Extra to fly in Masters and maybe not even
then...<BR><BR>Cheers<BR>John<BR><BR><BR>On 3/15/2012 7:54 AM, <A
href="http://us.mc1205.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ronlock@comcast.net"
target=_blank>ronlock@comcast.net</A> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hi
All,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Here
is a copy of another proposal for consideration by the Contest
Board along with the others that have been
submitted.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">This
one does not disqualify a model for not meeting weight limits.
It imposes a score penalty, but still allows the
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">model
to participate.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Ron
Lockhart</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<o:p></o:p></P>
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style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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