<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Combat is starting to sound better and better!<br><br>--- On <b>Sat, 3/17/12, Archie Stafford <i><astafford@md.metrocast.net></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Archie Stafford <astafford@md.metrocast.net><br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<br>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>Date: Saturday, March 17, 2012, 5:53 AM<br><br><div id="yiv883955594"><div><div>Correct. It will only affect rounds that they fail weight. Any round thet are not weighed or make weight will be scored. </div><div><br></div><div>Arch<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:20 PM, "Dave Burton" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:burtona@atmc.net" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><style><!--
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--></style><div class="yiv883955594WordSection1"><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Ok I understand. In effect the overweight planes will be DQ after flight rather than before with no opportunity to make weight for the flight. I assume any rounds he flies with a legal weight will be scored either before or after the DQ? Correct?</span></p><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext;"> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Archie Stafford<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 16, 2012 11:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span></p></div></div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal">Dave,</p></div><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal">The planes will not be weighted until the completion of a flight so we would have no way to know the weight until after the round. </p></div><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal">This is not pro-testable as it has been published well in advance. Next year the ED can do it anyway he chooses. </p></div><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal">Arch<br>Sent from my iPhone</p></div><div><p
class="yiv883955594MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><br>On Mar 16, 2012, at 10:08 PM, "Dave Burton" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:burtona@atmc.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=burtona@atmc.net">burtona@atmc.net</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Arch,</span></p><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">How about the impact on other pilots, and especially those judging, and other workers having to work for someone who’s results won’t count. I think I’d probably resent being asked to spend my time at the Nats judging a pilot when his flights won’t be included in the results.</span></p><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">How is this process supported in the rules? Would not ignoring of the rules be
subject to a protest too? </span></p><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">I really doubt you’ll have anyone show up and fly under these circumstances but if you do and you allow them to fly you are letting them take up the time that could better be used on” legal” contestants.</span></p><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Dave</span></p><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext;"> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Archie Stafford<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 16, 2012 9:55 PM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span></p></div></div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal">Hey, all I did was decide to enforce an existing rule. Actually, I didn't have to say a thing except for how it was going to be enforced. Frankly, if I had the number of people available to strictly enforce every rule, I would. If nothing else my decision has at least sparked the debate about the rule. It has never made sense to me to never enforce it. Personally I think it needs to be left alone, but others don't. Even this year, no one is saying you can't fly
a heavy airplane. You just wont get to keep the scores for that round. I seriously doubt someone with a real shot at winning would show up with a heavy airplane anyway. People can even have their tear sheets for the round. It just wont be listed in the results. </p></div><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal">Arch<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</p></div><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><br>On Mar 16, 2012, at 9:48 PM, John Gayer <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=jgghome@comcast.net">jgghome@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal">Point taken about having to serve notice that you are going to enforce a rule at a local contest. Note that Arch had to do that for the Nats this year and such a clatter did
arise....<br><br><br>On 3/16/2012 6:53 PM, Dave Burton wrote: </p><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">John, one issue about waive a rule notification in really bothers me in your suggestion. Having to post in advance 30 days that a CD will enforce a rule is counter to any other process I’ve seen. </span></p><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">It becoming clear -eliminating the max weight rule is the only system that really works. LOL</span></p><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext;"> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Gayer<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 16, 2012 8:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals</span></p></div></div><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal"> </p><p class="yiv883955594MsoNormal">This won't work very well, in my opinion. Who is going to the Nats if they start out 5-10% behind? This does nothing to increase attendance and is detrimental to operation of local contests. All it takes is an unhappy pilot feeling he was home-towned protesting vociferously about the heavy airplane that just beat him and demanding a weight check that might reverse the
first and second places. <br><br>IF the CD denies the protest, you've lost a pilot. If you do a weight check and it fails, then you've lost a different pilot. To prevent this, a CD must waive the weight rules on his sanction which is not normally done now, although it should be. So extra work and/or hassle for the CD and extra work for scorekeeper/scorekeeping systems. For what gain? A rule that will not be enforced locally and will keep pilots away from the Nats just as much as no weight allowance at all. <br><br>At the very least, preface the rule proposal with something like:<br>This weight rule will be enforced at the Nats. If a CD chooses to include this rule at a local contest, he must publicize that fact appropriately to all potential attendees at least 30 days prior to the contest. <br><br>At a local contest, this officially leaves us with no weight rule at all in AMA classes. That's probably OK as we could reject on size if needed.
Personally I would only turn someone away if they brought a 42% Extra to fly in Masters and maybe not even then...<br><br>Cheers<br>John<br><br><br>On 3/15/2012 7:54 AM, <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=ronlock@comcast.net">ronlock@comcast.net</a> wrote: </p><div><p><span style="">Hi All,</span></p><p><span style=""> </span></p><p><span style="">Here is a copy of another proposal for consideration by the Contest Board along with the others that have been submitted.</span></p><p><span style="">This one does not disqualify a model for not meeting weight limits. It imposes a score penalty, but still allows the </span></p><p><span style="">model to participate.</span></p><p><span style=""> </span></p><p><span style="">Ron Lockhart</span></p></div><p
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