<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Michael,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My gut reaction is that I think this is an idea that has some merit and should be persued. However, they tried the "mini-mac" in IMAC and it did not seem to get too far. Don't know if that comparision would carry over to pattern or not.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Having flown a lot of electric stuff in the last few years, the Osiris, Aspera, small Vanquish sized planes really appeal to me due to cost, transportability, ease, etc.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It might be possible to hold a normal contest with one additional class that flies the smaller stuff. I think it would be interesting.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R. <BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 3/12/12, Michael Ramsey <I><milehipilot@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Michael Ramsey <milehipilot@gmail.com><BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Monday, March 12, 2012, 6:14 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1188179090>Has there ever been any discussion about developing an AMA Pattern class that uses aircraft approximately half that of the current 2-meter limits? A more affordable way to fly, and be competitive would make contest attendance personally more attractive. I'm thinking that the 3DHS Osiris would be the benchmark.<BR><BR>Thanks for sharing your thoughts,<BR><BR>Michael...<BR><BR>
<DIV class=yiv1188179090gmail_quote>On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 4:41 PM, <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=BUDDYonRC@aol.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:BUDDYonRC@aol.com">BUDDYonRC@aol.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=yiv1188179090gmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000 size=3 face=Arial>
<DIV>Mike, Bob and others</DIV>
<DIV>Having served on the rules change survey committee back in 2005 this all sounds like the e-mail comments some 105 of them that I saved that are a near copy of the current reasons for and against the weight change issue of the current post's.</DIV>
<DIV> If you want to look at change and effect to pattern that i think has more to do with attracting new members look at the pattern difficulty.</DIV>
<DIV>Back in 1996 everything was simple and beginners were shaking in their boots to do an outside loop the most difficult maneuver in FAI was </DIV>
<DIV>a snap on a 45 down line. I think some possible new bees go to the field watch a while, try a while and leave. True those who have the funds, ability and competitive drive will stay. By the way I was in favor of the weight change back then but like Bob my dog is in the cage and hasn't hunted in a while and when it does only looks for crippled birds. </DIV>
<DIV>Buddy B.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 3/12/2012 7:33:39 A.M. Central Daylight Time, <A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=drmikedds@sbcglobal.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</A> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">well spoken, Bob<U></U><U></U></SPAN></DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U> <U></U></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [mailto:<A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bob Richards<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 12, 2012 4:15 AM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<U></U><U></U></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><U></U> <U></U></DIV>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>That may be so, but I don't see how this particular proposal would have that effect. Is anyone serious about leaving the hobby because of the weight rule proposal? Is anyone who was contemplating pattern competition going to be turned off by it?<U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal> <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>Keep in mind there will always be chronic complainers. How many times did I hear that "four-strokes are going to ruin the sport" or "turnaround ..." or "noise rules ...", etc etc. Some did leave the hobby, but there will always be turnover. Some of them will feel the need to give an excuse whether it really is the reason. I will say that some of the largest local contests I ever attended were AFTER all of those game-ruining rules that I mentioned. <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal> <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>The whole hobby of model airplanes has changed significantly in the last 10-15 years, with many more venues to divide one's time in the hobby - pattern is an overall smaller piece of the pie as a result. I personally don't think that anything about the rules can be blamed for any downturn in pattern contest attendance. Nor do I think that tweaking the rules we have will magically breath new life into it. <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal> <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>Bob R.<U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 3/11/12, Del <I><<A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=drykert2@rochester.rr.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com">drykert2@rochester.rr.com</A>></I></B> wrote:<U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><BR>From: Del <<A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=drykert2@rochester.rr.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com">drykert2@rochester.rr.com</A>><BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<BR>To: "General pattern discussion" <<A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Date: Sunday, March 11, 2012, 2:56 PM<U></U><U></U></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">Bob.. </SPAN></B><U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> </SPAN></B><U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">Poorly disguised rule changes have driven more from the sport than any words or hashing about the sport. </SPAN></B><U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> </SPAN></B><U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> Del </SPAN></B><U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original Message ----- <U></U><U></U></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A title=http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bob@toprudder.com href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bob@toprudder.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>Bob Richards</A> <U></U><U></U></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A title=http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>General pattern discussion</A> <U></U><U></U></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Sunday, March 11, 2012 1:22 PM<U></U><U></U></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<U></U><U></U></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><U></U> <U></U></DIV></DIV>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>Guys,<U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal> <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>For the life of me, I can't see why everyone is getting bent out of shape over the proposed weight limt rule for the lower classes. It opens up the possibilities for someone wanting to get started in pattern and competing in the lower classes, IMHO. If someone in the upper classes has a plane that is at the weight limit, but is unable to repair the plane without it going over the limit, then it becomes a perfect hand-me-down for someone getting started. <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal> <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>The fact is that the proposed rule does not exclude any planes that are already legal. The guys that build light know they should have a better flying plane than one that is heavier. The only reason I can think of that people with light planes can get upset with this rule is that someone with a heavier plane might beat them. <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal> <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>OTOH, how often are models weighed at local contests? I never saw it done in the years I flew, but that was before the electrics came on the scene. Tell me, does any CD weigh planes at a local event now? If not, then I am really confused about weight limit discussions where someone says it is ruining things to raise the weight limit, when no one is checking it at local contests anyway. Why all the fuss (one way or the other) about a rule that no one enforces except at the Nats?<U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal> <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>I really don't have a dog in this hunt. I'm just confused about all the strongly worded comments going back and forth. This, IMHO, does more to turn people off from pattern than any rule change proposal.<U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal> <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>Bob R.<U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><BR><BR> <U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<U></U><U></U></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A title=http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A title=http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=yiv1188179090MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><U></U> <U></U></SPAN></DIV></DIV><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>