<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Not arguing the difficulty, just thinking that the whole decline of participation started with turn around. Maybe the casual sport flyer would think about trying pattern if he didn't have to practice the turnaround pattern.<br><br>Joe Dunnaway<br><br>Sent from my HTC Inspire™ 4G<br><br><div id="htc_header" style="">----- Reply message -----<br>From: "Peter Vogel" <vogel.peter@gmail.com><br>To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>Cc: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<br>Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2012 17:35<br><br></div><br><div>I don't get what the big deal is about turnaround... Who can't execute a basic reverse cuban, Cuban, or split S at the edge of the box but can execute consecutive loops at show center?</div><div><br>Sent from my iPhone4S</div><div><br>On Mar 12, 2012, at 3:31 PM, "<a href="mailto:dunnaway@hbcomm.net">dunnaway@hbcomm.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:dunnaway@hbcomm.net">dunnaway@hbcomm.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Maybe adding a non-turnaround class is an option we should look at.<br><br>Joe Dunnaway<br><br>Sent from my HTC Inspire™ 4G<br><br><div id="htc_header" style="">----- Reply message -----<br>From: "Keith Hoard" <<a href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">khoard@gmail.com</a>><br>To: "General pattern discussion" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<br>Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2012 17:22<br><br></div><br>If you'd eliminate the turnaround maneuvers also, you'd get alot more sport guys coming back to pattern. <br>.<br>Just sayin' . . .<br>.<br clear="all"><br>Keith Hoard<br>Collierville, TN<br><a href="mailto:khoard@gmail.com">khoard@gmail.com</a><br>
<br><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Michael Ramsey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:milehipilot@gmail.com">milehipilot@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Has there ever been any discussion about developing an AMA Pattern class that uses aircraft approximately half that of the current 2-meter limits? A more affordable way to fly, and be competitive would make contest attendance personally more attractive. I'm thinking that the 3DHS Osiris would be the benchmark.<br>
<br>Thanks for sharing your thoughts,<br><br>Michael...<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 4:41 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:BUDDYonRC@aol.com" target="_blank">BUDDYonRC@aol.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial"><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="3">
<div>Mike, Bob and others</div>
<div>Having served on the rules change survey committee back in 2005 this all
sounds like the e-mail comments some 105 of them that I saved that are a
near copy of the current reasons for and against the weight change issue of the
current post's.</div>
<div> If you want to look at change and effect to pattern that i think has
more to do with attracting new members look at the pattern difficulty.</div>
<div>Back in 1996 everything was simple and beginners were shaking in their
boots to do an outside loop the most difficult maneuver in FAI was </div>
<div>a snap on a 45 down line. I think some possible new bees go to the
field watch a while, try a while and leave. True those who have the funds,
ability and competitive drive will stay. By the way I was in favor of
the weight change back then but like Bob my dog is in the cage and hasn't hunted
in a while and when it does only looks for crippled birds. </div>
<div>Buddy B.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>In a message dated 3/12/2012 7:33:39 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
<a href="mailto:drmikedds@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">drmikedds@sbcglobal.net</a> writes:</div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:blue 2px solid"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'">well
spoken, Bob<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob
Richards<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 12, 2012 4:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> General
pattern discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
Proposals<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in" valign="top">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">That may be so, but I don't see how this particular
proposal would have that effect. Is anyone serious about leaving the
hobby because of the weight rule proposal? Is anyone who was
contemplating pattern competition going to be turned off by
it?<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Keep in mind there will always be chronic
complainers. How many times did I hear that "four-strokes are going to
ruin the sport" or "turnaround ..." or "noise rules ...", etc etc. Some
did leave the hobby, but there will always be turnover. Some of them
will feel the need to give an excuse whether it really is the reason.. I
will say that some of the largest local contests I ever attended
were AFTER all of those game-ruining rules that I mentioned.
<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The whole hobby of model airplanes has changed
significantly in the last 10-15 years, with many more
venues to divide one's time in the hobby - pattern is an overall
smaller piece of the pie as a result. I personally don't think that
anything about the rules can be blamed for any downturn in pattern
contest attendance. Nor do I think that tweaking the rules we have
will magically breath new life into it. <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bob R.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 3/11/12, Del
<i><<a href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com" target="_blank">drykert2@rochester.rr.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:medium none;MARGIN-TOP:5pt;PADDING-LEFT:4pt;MARGIN-BOTTOM:5pt;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;MARGIN-LEFT:3.75pt;BORDER-LEFT:#1010ff 1.5pt solid;PADDING-TOP:0in;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt"><br>From: Del
<<a href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com" target="_blank">drykert2@rochester.rr.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Rules Proposals<br>To: "General pattern discussion"
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>Date: Sunday, March 11,
2012, 2:56 PM<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:blue;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'">Bob..
</span></b><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:blue;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:blue;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'">Poorly
disguised rule changes have driven more from the sport than any words
or hashing about the sport. </span></b><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:blue;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR:blue;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'">
Del </span></b><u></u><u></u></p></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:medium none;PADDING-LEFT:4pt;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;MARGIN:5pt 0in 5pt 3..75pt;BORDER-LEFT:blue 1.5pt solid;PADDING-TOP:0in;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'">-----
Original Message ----- <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'"> <a title="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bob@toprudder.com" href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bob@toprudder.com" target="_blank">Bob Richards</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'">To:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'"> <a title="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">General pattern discussion</a>
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'">Sent:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'"> Sunday,
March 11, 2012 1:22 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'">Subject:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif'"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposals<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="PADDING-RIGHT:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in" valign="top">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Guys,<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For the life of me, I can't see why
everyone is getting bent out of shape over the proposed
weight limt rule for the lower classes. It opens up the
possibilities for someone wanting to get started in pattern
and competing in the lower classes, IMHO. If someone in
the upper classes has a plane that is at the weight limit, but
is unable to repair the plane without it going over the limit,
then it becomes a perfect hand-me-down for someone getting
started. <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The fact is that the proposed
rule does not exclude any planes that are already legal.
The guys that build light know they should have a better
flying plane than one that is heavier. The only reason I can
think of that people with light planes can get upset with this
rule is that someone with a heavier plane might beat them...
<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">OTOH, how often are models weighed at local
contests? I never saw it done in the years I flew, but that
was before the electrics came on the scene. Tell me, does any
CD weigh planes at a local event now? If not, then I am really
confused about weight limit discussions where someone
says it is ruining things to raise the weight limit, when no
one is checking it at local contests anyway. Why all the fuss
(one way or the other) about a rule that no one enforces
except at the Nats?<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I really don't have a dog in this hunt. I'm
just confused about all the strongly worded comments going
back and forth. This, IMHO, does more to turn people off from
pattern than any rule change proposal.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bob R.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br><br> <u></u><u></u></p></div></td></tr></tbody></table>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN:center" align="center">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></blockquote></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:12pt"><br>-----Inline
Attachment Follows-----<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<br><a title="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="http://us.mc1616.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a title="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca..org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></font></blockquote>
</div></font></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br></blockquote></div><br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br></blockquote></div><br>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>