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    Dan,<br>
    <br>
    It's really not clear to me what your problem is. At least the
    appearance is that you do not trust the BOD to provide you with
    honest leadership. There are three members out of five on the rules
    committee that are current members of the BOD. This is a
    hard-working&nbsp; committee that has shown itself capable of compromise
    and turned these proposals around very quickly. It is one thing for
    you to disagree vehemently with the committee and another to accuse
    the members of lying, hidden agendas and falsifying surveys.
    Apparently "volunteer" is also a dirty word but the NSRCA would not
    function without them. If this is all true than I'm wasting my time
    with this post as I must be part of the problem. Scott has been an
    honest and open leader of the committee. He has the full support of
    the committee and the board. Having a survey&nbsp; to obtain input from
    the membership and the pattern community as a whole was Scott's
    idea. The raw survey data is not modifiable by Scott. He can access
    it for results and that is all. To suggest that he or anyone else on
    the committee would falsify results is very insulting.&nbsp; <br>
    <br>
    The rules committee is operating at the direction of the board. The
    board members were presented with the four topics that have evolved
    as rule change proposals. The board was presented with the original
    outline in January that led to the formation of a committee and has
    also been presented with the current versions of the proposals prior
    to the survey. I'm sure many of the board members have also seen the
    vitriol poured on the committee by a few online. All I have received
    from the board at this point are words of encouragement.<br>
    <br>
    This does not mean that all the proposals as presented by the
    committee will get a rubber stamp of approval from the board. The
    committee expects further modification or possible dismissal&nbsp; of
    proposals based on the survey and opinions/amendments/votes of&nbsp;
    board members. No matter whether the proposals are passed as is,
    modified or dropped, there will be some unhappy folks on the board,
    the committee and the pattern community as there are supporters and
    detractors for all the proposals.<br>
    <br>
    I&nbsp; have always thought that all those great pattern folks I have met
    around the country and the world are capable of civil discourse,
    amiable disagreement and serious compromise when it comes to matters
    like these. What I have seen online about these four proposals&nbsp; and
    the imputed ethics of the committee members has shaken my faith. It
    has not, however, shaken my desire to see this task through to the
    end.<br>
    <br>
    John Gayer<br>
    NSRCA Treasurer<br>
    Rules Committee member<br>
    <br>
    On 2/17/2012 8:52 PM, Dan Curtis wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1329537160.96280.YahooMailRC@web181311.mail.ne1.yahoo.com"
      type="cite">
      <style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style>
      <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times,
        serif;font-size:12pt">
        <div>Okay, that is it!&nbsp;&nbsp;I asked because I want to know, I
          have&nbsp;served on the board for several years prior and we were
          asked to prove darn near everything we did, including
          surveys.&nbsp; So if you want to attack with a C'mon Man so be it.&nbsp;
          From the views you expressed on RCU we know how you stand on
          the main issue of weight, from the minutes of the meetings for
          this year we know that you were able to select "volonteers" to
          complete your committee, we know that the preamble was written
          in a way to present the board as being for the proposed
          changes, so we know that some seem to have an agenda.&nbsp; You
          asked for it so you got it.&nbsp; So it would appear that we have
          no real verifiable way of supporting survey results one way or
          the other.</div>
        <div>&nbsp;</div>
        <div>I seldom post on this forum, since it usually just banter
          between old friends and foes and full of insider jokes but
          these so called proposals are things that should be discussed
          on this forum.&nbsp; They should have been discussed prior to being
          placed in any type of survey.&nbsp; They affect our sport and I
          believe your survey will show that they would effect it
          adversely.&nbsp; We have been through all of this before, over and
          over on weight.&nbsp; It seems like a resurecting ghost that we
          can't keep underground.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
        <div>&nbsp;</div>
        <div>The fact that you seem so defensive of your baby also adds
          to my doubt about this whole fiasco.&nbsp; Now, lay off&nbsp; the
          attacks and either answer the questions or ingnore them, your
          choice Mr. Chairman.</div>
        <div>&nbsp;</div>
        <div>Dan<br>
        </div>
        <div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times,
          serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br>
          <div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times,
            serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">
              <hr size="1">
              <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> Scott
              McHarg <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com">&lt;scmcharg@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
              <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> General
              pattern discussion
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">&lt;nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org&gt;</a><br>
              <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Fri,
              February 17, 2012 9:34:22 PM<br>
              <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re:
              [NSRCA-discussion] Proposals Survey<br>
            </font><br>
            Dan,<br>
            &nbsp; It was actually 16 times you voted including your
            original.&nbsp; I've taken care of the extras for you.&nbsp; As far as
            factual, really?&nbsp; Do you honestly think that way?&nbsp; They will
            be factual because we are here to serve you.&nbsp; If the
            majority says they don't like something, what would be the
            purpose of doing it?&nbsp; If we wanted to push our own agendas,
            why even have a survey? C'mon Man!<br>
            <br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:31 PM,
              Dan Curtis <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:warrior523@att.net" rel="nofollow"
                  target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:warrior523@att.net">warrior523@att.net</a>&gt;</span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN:
                0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
                class="gmail_quote">
                <div>
                  <div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york,
                    times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
                    <div>Well, lets hope that is true, I only voted
                      about 15 times so not a problem.</div>
                    <div>&nbsp;</div>
                    <div>One other question, how will we know the
                      results are factual?&nbsp; </div>
                    <div>&nbsp;</div>
                    <div>Dan<br>
                    </div>
                    <div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york,
                      times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br>
                      <div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new
                        york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><font
                          face="Tahoma">
                          <hr size="1">
                          <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b>
                          Scott McHarg &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com"
                            rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                            ymailto="mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com">scmcharg@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
                          <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b>
                          General pattern discussion &lt;<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
                            rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                            ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>&gt;<br>
                          <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b>
                          Fri, February 17, 2012 9:25:53 PM<br>
                          <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b>
                          Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Proposals Survey<br>
                        </font>
                        <div>
                          <div class="h5"><br>
                            Hi Dan,<br>
                            &nbsp;&nbsp; It just makes more work for me (which I'm
                            sure Keith H. would enjoy greatly as he
                            seems to have his panties in a wad).&nbsp; We
                            have several filters in place so I'll just
                            filter out the duplicate entries.&nbsp; We will
                            know who is trying to "pad the results".&nbsp;
                            There were several folks that were having
                            trouble accessing the system so we had to
                            remove the one time per user.&nbsp; Either way,
                            only the initial entry will be taken and if
                            a bunch go in just to screw it up for
                            everyone, we'll just shut it down.&nbsp; You're
                            right, it makes it a bit useless when people
                            do that.<br>
                            <br>
                            Have a good weekend,<br>
                            Scott<br>
                            <br>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 17,
                              2012 at 9:04 PM, Dan Curtis <span
                                dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:warrior523@att.net"
                                  rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                                  ymailto="mailto:warrior523@att.net">warrior523@att.net</a>&gt;</span>
                              wrote:<br>
                              <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px
                                solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                                PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">
                                <div>
                                  <div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new
                                    roman, new york, times, serif;
                                    FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
                                    <div>Guys,</div>
                                    <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                    <div>When the survey was put up on
                                      the website I filled it out and
                                      submitted my answers.&nbsp; Then I
                                      could not get back in to the
                                      survey.&nbsp; Which I assume was to
                                      stop a person from voting more
                                      than once.&nbsp; Well, I was on the
                                      website earlier tonight and for
                                      the heck of it I hit the survey
                                      link and low and behold I was back
                                      in and was able to fill the survey
                                      out again.&nbsp; If I hit submit, I get
                                      the results sumitted message.&nbsp; It
                                      appears that a person can vote as
                                      many times as they see fit now.&nbsp; I
                                      had another person or two try the
                                      same thing with the same results.&nbsp;
                                      Is this feature okay or is it
                                      making the survey results a bit
                                      useless?</div>
                                    <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                    <div>It may still be only countng
                                      the first time you voted or
                                      submitted but that is not the way
                                      it appears.&nbsp; Anybody got an
                                      answer???</div>
                                    <span><font color="#888888">
                                        <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                        <div>Dan</div>
                                      </font></span></div>
                                </div>
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                              </blockquote>
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